Is Harry Wills Resume overrated?

I would generally agree, though he might have lost to somebody like Killrain in a bare knuckle fight.

 

He had some scares early on in his career.

 

I don't really think about street fighting, just boxing...so I wouldn't know

 

Wills was number one contender, so why would he fight anyone to risk that status, number one contender = deserved next challenger.

Rickard, Kearns and maybe Dempsey wanted no part of Wills, plus Jack Johnsons gold tooth smile was still in folks memory.

 

One of Sullivan's title challengers was Jack Burke.

Sullivan turned up to the fight drunk, and still dominated him.

Now Jack Burke bested a young Jim Corbett, toying with him according to some accounts, and he also won one and lost one against Frank Slavin!

Burke was by no means a standout challenger, and was not as highly rated as Charlie Mitchell or Alf Greenfield, both of who he split series with.

Yes I do think that Jackson and Corbett were better than Sullivan's best gloved contenders, but it is not as clear cut as many people assume!

 

I get the idea, that the powers that be wanted to keep matching Wills against the top white contenders, until they got the result they wanted.

Wills very understandably said "enough is enough" past a certain point.

 

Burke did not beat Slavin, just about drew the first, ko'ed in the second. He was, however, better than Greenfield, probably a shade under Mitchell. Jackson had major problems against strong, very aggressive fighters, Farnan, Goddard and even Lambert, Lynch and Fallon.

 

Just a point. However good one judges Wills' and his resume does not add anything to Dempsey's status.

Wills was the top contender. Dempsey didn't fight him. Tearing down Wills does nothing for Dempsey. It is really a kind of twisted argument.

Let's say Sonny Liston went to prison for so long he never boxed after 1956. That doesn't make Patterson any "greater." It would only mean there isn't a fighter as good as Liston in the division.

Or to put it another way, why would ducking Eddie Machen be less embarrassing than ducking Sonny Liston?

If you duck your top contender, you ducked your top contender, and it is irrelevant how good some one judges that contender to be.

 

I don't blame Wills for sitting on his rating and not putting his aging frame against the likes of
Gibbons
Tunney
Godfrey
He had earlier done enough to warrant a deserved title chance,but the fact remains his win over Firpo was seen as an underwhelming bore snore and his victories over such as Norfolk,Clark ,Jackson were greeted with a ho hum of enthusiasm.
He and his manager's decision for him to rest on his laurels backfired on them.

 

Dempsey agreed to fight him twice. Both fights fell through. Dempsey wasn't ducking him. First fight got banned by NY and the second fight Dempsey was promised money and the guy didn't have anything to pay him.

Hard to say that he was ducking him.

 

Thank you for those facts, which some people here are (deliberately?) forgetting to take into consideration.

 

Agree but numero uno deserved title shot, let's be honest folk would have paid to see Dempsey vs Wills as Mr William Harrison had a penchant to rest on his laurels too, AKA rarely defended the title.

Miske got title shot and his record prior to facing Dempsey was very much not exciting (yes know of why Dempsey agreed to fight)

Brennan, Gibbons et al hardly fought opponents of high rating in the fights just prior to facing Dempsey, Brennan in bout before Dempsey fought a fighter who was on a streak of 8 bouts without a win, the bout previous to that was against fighter on 5 fight losing streak.

Gibbons in bout before facing Dempsey faced a fighter whose last 2 fights were against boxers making their pro debuts, Gibbons fight before that was against opponent who had only one win against 7 losses in his last 8 bouts.

Comparing Wills bouts while he waited for title bout against the above, does not look too bad in my opinion.

So Wills beat Firpo convincingly having decked Firpo, this only a year after Firpo nearly (and perhaps should have beaten Dempsey if rules were followed).

Wills resting on laurels could be laid at his door, but Wills also had a broken hand while sparring in early new year after Firpo bout, which curtailed his ability to fight for i think 6 months after injury.

Fact is Kearns and Rickard wanted nothing to do with Wills, for whatever reason be it financial or indeed race related after Jack Johnsons 'behaviour'.

 

I'm not contesting your points,though Wills knocked Firpo down after the referee had called break and Firpo was far from the shape he had been for Dempsey. Only a fool would suggest Harry did not merit a title shot.

 

Merit yes but he did not get one, Kearns, Rickard and maybe Dempsey the reason.

 

It's worth noting that Frank Slavin turned up drunk for a fight with Jim Hall and an exhibition with Mitchell, and in both cases got utterly smashed to pieces. Mitchell seemed to have an easier time hurting him.