Ezzard Charles Vs James Toney

Well, there is that, too...

 

What exactly is the agenda here? You’ve said it 3 times so I’d like to know what agenda I have. I have a gut feeling you are going to somehow tie this into me praising Marciano and Bashing Dempsey, because you have accused me of this. However, I don’t see how praising Charles as a top 5 fighter all time at his peak has anything to do with Marciano or Dempsey.

I think I pushed forth some genuine arguments in favor of Charles and others agree.

“Listen”

What am I not hearing? I am very open minded so please tell me.

I know you and high have many disagreements on the heavyweight division but isn’t that normal? We have mutual respect for each other and we can debate as adults. I’m a little disappointed you accuse me of pushing an agenda 99 percent of the time when I tend to put forth a lot of good arguments and view points highly respected members of this forum agree with.

 

Man I dont want to bother with u anymore. U only hear what u want to hear and u constantly assume and put words in peoples mouth based on your assumptions and agenda. I'm tired of it man. I never EVER said Charles wasnt a top tier ATG. Look at any of my P4P lists and u will c I have him at the very top 6 or 7 that's not what where talking about.
Your just impossible for me to try an reason with so I would rather just end it here.

 

That’s disappointing. I do like and respect you. And I wish you would have the decency to let me in on what agenda you think I have so I can “work on it”.

I never accused you of not rating Charles highly. What I ASKED was why you don’t rate Charles and Toney close in ATG lists yet rate them close in head to head ability? A fair question.

I also talked about how I think the Charles Moore fights show how Charles would have dealt with Toney. A fair poInt since many posters here have claimed Toney and Moore are very similar fighters. I also asked you why you don’t think Moore and Toney are similar and you answered.

I’ve made several points that Toney struggled or lost to fighters who were nowhere near the talent level of Charles. I think this is a significant valid point.

I am actually very open minded and have changed my mind and opinion on certain fighters more than anyone on this forum.

Example I used to think Holmes was highly overrated, now I rate him very highly.

Their are also fighters whom I used to rate very highly whom I now rate much lower

 

Lmao

 

At lhw charles,at cruiser and hw toney

 

You think Archie’s much better huh?

 

I feel Charles could overcome Toney's predilection for Burger King, yeah.

 

They were not even similar

 

Proof?

 

I'd go for Charles by decision,I think he would be too busy for Toney.

 

About the only thing I agree with trainer Don Turner on is that Toney was a terrific fighter.I think he had the potential to be an ATG.

 

Seamus
I overlooked that part. For some reason I though it was H2H which is one of the reasons I bought up the McCallum series earlier. My mistake here.

 

The thing is, Ezzard isn't going to put on weight for the sake of it. He'll come in in shape. The bigger the 'weight disparity' just means the bigger the gulf in conditioning.

Ezzard's a better fighter. If he also has the advantage of better conditioning, I see no way for Toney to win.

Ez too sharp, too much stamina, too quick. This is no 41 year old out of form Holyfield in with Toney. This is an elite fighter near his prime.

Another factor to throw in. In 'The Sweet Science' there is a chapter on Marciano v Charles 2 and a psychologist is asked his opinion. He says that Charles is beset by demons that hold him back and make him cautious but that if he could unleash his inner tiger he could win . Obviously he didn't but Toney was a much more confrontational opponent and might just get up Ezzard's nose. If he does, and we get a throwback to the Charles of before his opponent died, Toney could be in for a long painful night.

 

Modern nutrition? Lol toney just couldn't control himself when it comes to food.
Ezzard Charles is also someone Toney definitely wants to be light and mobile to fight.
Toney should not come much heavier than about 200lbs if he wants to keep up with Charles.

I favor Charles by decision over HW Toney who was in his 30s. Outslicking 230-250lb guys who were good but not great was something toney could do in his 30s while very overweight but he couldn't do it vs someone with a similar build and maybe even more skills than himself. Charles would make a 230+lb toney who looked fast and slick vs Sam peter look ponderous and slow