I'm not convinced that AJ easily beats Louis or Liston anymore

Liston and Povetkin are pretty much the same size. The only difference is that Liston fought more often and was consistently in excellent shape while Povetkin often came in over weight. Even Atlas, who was Povetkin's former trainer said that Povetkin was lazy and it showed in many of his performances. Atlas wanted Povetkin between 210-215 lbs, but Povetkin never put the work in. Povetkin most likely would've accomplished more in his prime if he listened to Atlas.

Povektin around 30 6'2" 221-231lbs
Liston around 30 6'1.5" 212-220 lbs

Povetkin at 39 6'2" 222lbs
Liston at 39 6'1.5" 226 lbs

 

Anthony Joshua is just coming into his prime so it's tough to say for sure how he'd handle skilled adversity when they're in their own prime, but as of now I feel pretty confident both Louis and Liston would take him out.

Louis would pick Joshua apart. Too quick, too accurate, and too much fire power. He's all wrong for Joshua and the fight would probably end between rounds 7 and 10. Louis would probably be rocked on multiple occasions but not enough to lose control of the fight before scoring the knock out.

Liston would have a tougher time but still would win. His long, heavy jab coupled with his hooks would be constant problem. Joshua would be gamely swinging back, but he's not fast enough to catch Liston consistently enough to beat him. Liston would end up bullying Joshua and taking him out in a great fight.

 

I'm very serious. Povetkin conditioning even in his prime was awful. The fighters in the late 30's to early 40's were more experienced, more skilled, and better conditioned compared to the fat slobs he fought. Huck came very close to beating a prime Povetkin and Huck is a novice compared to Tommy Farr, Billy Conn, and Arturo Godoy. Povetkin with his awful conditioning would've been gassing out on the regular every time he stepped up back in the late 30's to 40's.

Also, unlike today where Povetkin's skill level is uncommon in the heavyweight division his skillset would've been fairly common back in the old days and nothing special. This is also the case with Povetkin's ring experience. Compared to most of the other top heavyweights today Povetkin at 34-2 is very experienced, but back in the old days even Joe Louis at 35-1 was still considered inexperienced.

 

So you're convinced that a prime Alexander Povetkin loses to:

Gunnar Barland
Jack Trammell
Maxie Rosenbloom
Ray Impelletiere
Leroy Haynes
Sonny Boy Walker
Al Ettore
Arturo Godoy
Nathan Mann
Alberto Lovell
Jimmy Adamick
Andre Lenglet
Red Burman
Gus Dorazio
Johnny Paycheck
Tony Galento
Abe Simon
Pat Comiskey
Lem Franklin
Tony Musto
Joey Maxim
Melio Bettina

Because all of these men were top 10 in the late 30s, early 40s.

 

Joshua faster than Liston??

 

I can't see any way Povetkin wouldn't get at least ranked 10th in any era.

 

Does this include Tony Galento, a man who made the Ring's Top 10 three years in a row in the late 30s including a #1 contender ranking in 1939?

https://streamable.com/iopn

https://streamable.com/xmdd

 

people are really jumping the gun here. Lets not exaggerate povetkins performance. He had an exciting start, boxed well, busted ajs nose and rocked him, but thats it. The fact povetkin had a huge advantage in experience, a solid chin, and a good gameplan made no difference. Aj thoroughly outboxed and outmuscled the smaller man and he probably would have koed him sooner if he wasnt so cautious.

With that being said, liston and louis both bring things to the table that could make a fantasy fight with aj interesting. Like povetkin, they had crushing power with slow feet, high ring iq, and they were all similar in height.

Liston has a ferocity and intimidation factor rarely seen even amongst heavyweights. Even if his 84' reach is exaggerated, its obvious based on film and photos he had massive muscular arms and knew how to use them. If we ignore the "phantom punch" it means the only time liston was down in his whole career was the very end of his career as a 40 something heroin abusing shopworn, alcohol chugging fighter looking for a payday--and the opponent who beat him was beaten to a pulp, floored, and his eye was so damaged by liston he retired. Tells you something about how scary the old lion was.

Liston had power in both hands and was a master of range. He rarely let an opponent dictate the pace and had one of the best jabs in the division. Every single punch in his arsenal was good: hooks, uppercuts, right cross, etc. He was a good body puncher and had underrated defense. Best of all: he had stamima to go 15, rare for a puncher of his calibre. His main weaknesses were his slow feet and if he got frustrated , cheating and quitting werent beneath him.

Now as far as a potential match goes, i think it really boils down to if joshua will look back at liston at the weigh in and let him know its gonna be a war, or if he starts doubting himself...and right now, things arent looking good for aj when it comes to mental composure with all the wilder drama and him making outrageous statements like telling the fans to fight wilder or asking things like "how is he so confident?", almost in awe that wilder has no self doubts.

The funny thing is, liston might end up folding if joshua gathers his bearings and gets down to business. Weve seen that side of him against breazille and whyte whom he had bad blood with.

If both men are in shape and let it all out, i see first few rounds being a very painful boxing lesson for aj, who never met a creature that ruthless as an amateur or pro. Hed have a sore stomach from body blows, a busted lip from listons ramrod jab, a welt on the cheek from a flagrant elbow, and swelling in his eyes from the combinations. Joshua would have success with his own body shots and timing liston as he bored in with his right hand. Eventually, liston goes down around the 5th from a big right hand to the skull. Both men would be gasping for air and picking their shots carefully, fearing counters. Listons continues to bust joshua with the jab and cuts him in round 7. A half blind joshua does all he can to hold, push, and stick his huge arms out to keep liston at bay. Liston, being the much better infighter, takes advantage of joshuas panickin and gets inside, working the body and landing a vicious uppercut. Joshua goes down.

Liston attempts to finish off joshua who is up at the count of 7. Joshua regains composure and smothers liston--knowing he already lost the round--to recover. Round 8, liston is running out of steam after failing to get the knockout and is battered by joshuas combinations. Joshuas corner cant stop the bleeding so he puts it all on the line. Liston goes down, halfway gets up, then rolls over and spits out his mouthpiece.

Joshua KO 8. I lean toward joshua getting the win 7 times out of 10 as long as he isnt intimidated. If liston pierces joshuas suspect, doubtful psyche with his death glare, it'd be a different fight altogether with liston winning 9 out of 10 of those encounters.

Louis was relatively light in weight for most of his career, but this had more to do with the era than a lack of build on his part. Boxers back then shunned weights and preferred being lean or stocky for explosive bursts and to have late round stamina. With that being said, i dont think joshuas 240+ pound weight would be a major obstacle on its osn merit.

I think the combination of joshuas size+his ring iq and cautiousness would give joe problems. The issue isnt could joe hit him or hurt him because he most certainly could as he koed large heavy men like carnera, simon, galento, and the baer brothers. If joe manages to tag joshua with a good combination, he wouldnt be able to shrug it off.

But joshua has impressed me not just with his disciplined professionalism (not letting povetkin, the smaller man, bully him or dictate the pace and using his reach and iq to break povetking down), joshua has shown heart by not panicking with a bloody nose, or when he got off the floor to win against wladmir (a massive puncher). Point being its not a sure thing joshua falls apart even if louis whacks him hard because if joshua was glass jawed or lacked heart, we would have seen it by now. Louis would need to break him down over time, break joshuas will, and eventually get the stoppage. Hed need to work for it.

And therein lies the problem: i simply dont see louis surviving long enough to make that outcome a reality. Joshua is the final result of many experiments in the modern big muscular boxer puncher type. Unlike mike weaver (who had heart but lacked skill), frank bruno (who had skill but lacked heart), joshua is a big man who can think inside the ring without needing the coach to yell at him every 5 seconds. He is observant and doesnt let his power and size get to his head or underestimate an opponent. Even without these traits, a 6'6 240 pound heavyweight would be a challenge for joe louis. With these traits, and factoring in louis' shaky chin, lack of height and reach, and slow feet, and im gonna have to say joshua wins by ko by the 9th round. Both men would be badly hurt, and its even possibly louis makes adjustments for the rematch and does much better like he tended to do, but joshua is good at adjusting too. Right now, i lean toward joshua 6 times out of 10 to win. Louis' incredible handspeed and vastly superior experence and ring iq make it an even fight.

 

I'll judge him once he has retired,if I'm still above ground.