Do you have Jack Johnson in your top 5 HWs of all time?

Nah, he and a few others probably should.

I probably shouldn't have included teir V, it was more just the way I was thinking about it.

 

Johnson's title defenses were even poorer than Dempseys and the champion he beat is never rated in the top 25. Nor is the fighter he lost the title to. He was able to avoid his top three challengers throughout his reign.Though as a contender, he clearly beat a prime Mcvey. And he faced all that hate with unflinching cool and climbed the very top of the mountain. I have him at 7. With 1. Ali 2. Louis 3 Holmes 4 Marciano 5 Lewis 6 Foreman ahead of him. 8 Frazier 9 Holyfield 10 Tyson 11 Jefferies 12 Dempsey 13 Liston 14 Vlad 15 Vitali after him. Perhaps Liston should be higher but the two fights with Clay/Ali make that difficult to do.

 

Around 11 for me....

I rate in tiers and go back and forth about the 7-11 tier or a 11-14 tier

7-10
Marciano
Frazier
Tyson
Holyfield

Or 12-14
Liston
Dempsey
Vitali

I usually put him 11-14 but am never comfortable or satisfied

 

Top three of four

 

10-15

 

Yes.

 

I struggle to see how he makes top 10. Maybe on historical importance?

 

he was the HW champion in all but name during Burns reign, so yeh.

As far as anyone should be concerned, defending the "black" title is just as valuble as defending a single title today, meaning he held the record for defences until Louis came along. ANd if Louis is in, then JOhnson has a case to be near him.

odd how some people can count unrecognised "wbo" defences of the 90s by opportunist boxers who couldnt land a recognised title, and which were way lesser than Jacks black title, yet ignore Jacks complete title reign.

 

Not in mine but it is not out of the question...his greatness like any ATG trancends his era...I always consider the style of the era, circumstances, equipment such as shoes, gloves, protective equipment, referee, rules of the time, all factor in to include the fighter he became by the time he became champion which was formidable....in layman's terms he would be successful in any era under any circumstance because I feel his talent and ring IQ adapts much more civilized eras

 

Ali and Louis are 1 and 2 (in either order). Everyone else is battling for the no. 3 spot, including Johnson. Definitely top 10 and top 5 for me too but which number in that 5 I've no idea.

 

1. Sam Langford
2. James J Corbett
3. Jack Johnson
4. Gene Tunney
5. Tyson
6. Ezzard Charles
7. Larry Holmes
8. Bob Fitzsimmons
9. Liston
10. Battling Jim Johnson

 

#5 is far too high for Tyson Fury.

 

Battling Jim Johnson #10... There's a new one

 

It's a comedy entry, obviously