Patterson - Ellis fight (Judge yourself)

Thanks very much for putting this on.

I had the fight scored 8-6 for Ellis through 14. I thought Ellis was knocked down in the 14, but if Ellis took the 15th, my score would have been the same as Harold Valen's. Patterson gave away too many rounds by not letting his hands go.

Cosell had Patterson ahead in the middle part of the fight. I had him behind. Just the way I saw it.

 

I saw the telecast when I was in boot camp. Leotis Martin k.o.ed Liston. Patterson won the fight all the way . He was jobbed. He out worked Ellis, even broke his nose. HE MADE THE FIGHT. Patterson all the way by rounds or on points.

 

I want to score this one later.

 

I'm a Patterson lover who thinks the above quote is exactly what Floyd DIDN'T do and that ultimately cost him. Patterson landed the harder punches, scored the KD, cut Ellis, broke his nose BUT...spent many minutes in many rounds doing nothing.

He often did this and it was so frustrating to watch. Check out the 1st Quarry fight; going into the last two rounds Floyd had the fight in the bag yet goes passive and listless the rest of the way letting Jerry salvage a draw. :huh

 

I scored the fight for Patterson when I watched the fight a couple of years ago, can't remember the score (think I had him up four points if I'm not mistaken).

But I don't think it's very useful trying to score a fight on Youtube. You don't get a feel for how hard the punches land, or how cleanly they land. Youtube is great for knockouts and quick entertainment, but it's not a good tool to judge fights.

 

You see, this is cool because I HAVE The Ring Magazine from, what was it, 1972, which had the cover story about the Ellis-Patterson referee, the scoring, AND why there was a debate about whether scoring based on television was adequate or the live audience had the advantage.

Basically, the live audience is going to have the advantage (at least the ones close enough to see) as far as seeing who's really landing accurately.

Also, back then it was not a ten -point must system, if I'm not mistaken, and the referee scored as well (something that just does not work).:thumbsup

 

Patterson was a great fighter but too small for the sixties and seventies greats. He never got any respect after the two losses to Liston, although he fought some good fights afterward.

Powers that be in boxing might not have been too excited about having him as champ again.

 

Here is my scoring, round by round and with reasons given:

ROUND 1
Clear round for Ellis, just on the basis of output. Almost no clean punches are landed. Floyd spends practically the entire time bouncing up and down and barely throws any punches, and Ellis is not exactly a windmill himself, but is still much busier- he probably doubles or triples Patterson on a punchstat.
1-0 Ellis
ROUND 2
Basically a slightly more active version of the first round. Patterson has one good right hand that draws blood from Ellis' nose, but not much else. Ellis appears throws and lands substantially more punches overall.
2-0 Ellis
ROUND 3
Clearest round so far, definitely in favor of Ellis. Patterson looks somewhat shaken during the second half of the round, as Ellis puts together by far the best offense seen up the the present with some solid crosses and uppercuts to Floyd's jaw.
3-0 Ellis
ROUND 4
The first good round by Patterson in the fight. He lands his first serious combination a little under halfway in, and opens up significantly throughout the rest of the round, tagging Ellis with a good right with about a minute left, and a left with a little over 30 seconds.
3-1 Ellis
ROUND 5
Not much to tell between them this round. Again, I give the edge to Ellis on the basis of being more active, throwing and landing more.
4-1 Ellis
ROUND 6
This is a hard one to score. Patterson does almost nothing for the first two-and-a-half minutes, probably throwing about 10 punches in total through that time, while Ellis does nothing spectacular, but keeps up a steady tempo of modest offense, building a comfortable lead in the round; however, with about 30 seconds left, Patterson suddenly explodes with a big left hook that hurts Ellis, and puts in a mild spurt of offense during the last 25 seconds. I'll give it to Patterson on the basis of his big finish and clean, hard shots as compared with Ellis' extended light, ineffectual flicking.
4-2 Ellis
ROUND 7
Again, a pretty uneventful round. Neither guy does much, but Ellis throws and lands a little bit more and a little bit more cleanly.
5-2 Ellis
ROUND 8
These guys are not making an easy-to-score match. Once again, pretty uneventful; no clear edge for either guy in terms of thrown, landed or really in cleanness that I can see. I'd say even or a very slight edge to Patterson are both reasonable...
5-3 Ellis
ROUND 9
Ellis comes out a little bit faster, but doesn't really connect with much, except to the back of the head. Patterson has a slight edge in the second half of the round when the two exchange, landing a couple of fairly good shots and making Ellis miss.
5-4 Ellis
ROUND 10
Very close, but Patterson probably lands the more solid punches.
5-5 even
ROUND 11
Ellis probably has a slight edge through the first two-and-a-half minutes on the basis of activity, but Patterson scores with the only real meaningful offense of the round in the last 30 seconds.
6-5 Patterson
ROUND 12
I can really see why there would be disagreement on the scoring of this fight, as there are so many painfully close and uneventful rounds where it's hard to separate the two fighters. I think Ellis puts forth a slightly stronger effort and strings together a little more in the way of offense in this round.
6-6 even
ROUND 13
Edge for Patterson on the basis of winning the crucial exchanges in the last minute.
7-6 Patterson
ROUND 14
Once again, Patterson's stronger performance in the later part of the round pulls him through for me. It looks like he nearly has a knockdown towards the end of the round when he lands a punch that appears to shake Ellis, but sort of falls into him and pushes him over, losing his opportunity- Ellis reacts like he's been hit and hurt, though.
8-6 Patterson
ROUND 15
Patterson looks to have the edge through two minutes, and then the broadcast cuts out- it doesn't matter, though, as he's already sealed the win on my scorecard.

IN SUMMATION
I scored it for Patterson, but I do not consider this fight a robbery, as many- in fact, probably most- of the rounds were debatable. Not a terribly riveting fight, with a few high points and a lot of relative monotony. I think this is a match it is wise to watch with the sound off (as I did through most of it), because the crowd is heavily partisan in Patteron's favor and makes anything he does seem more significant, and the commentators seem to have a slant in his favor insofar as I can tell as well. Patterson loses the majority of the early rounds in my eyes on the basis of just plain not doing enough- on one or two occasions he goes about a minute without throwing a punch, and Ellis gains the upperhand in those rounds in my eyes just by keeping up a respectable output of modest offense. By the second half of the fight, Patterson was having fewer lulls and landing more effectively when the two exchanged, which earned him the fight on my scorecard.

 

Marciano-Frazier---I scored the same as you did except for rounds 8 & 9. I just rewatched them. Ellis, in my judgement, clearly won 8. Patterson did next to nothing and Ellis did land a few good punches in a very slow round. Round 9 is debatable but I gave it to Ellis the first time and I think that was justifiable on watching it a second time, but there were enough exchanges that one could argue this round either way. Ellis landed a strong left to the body right before the bell that should not be overlooked. It was one of the few good body punches in the whole fight.

My bottom line--there is nothing to get excited enough about to criticize Valan. Patterson was simply not busy enough to put most rounds away.

 

Patterson now the Three time Heavyweight Champion. I just hate robberies like this one, especially when it happens to one of my favorites.

 

For me this fight has some nostalgia. I saw it as a child in the sixties. As far as I remember Ellis was very good in the beginning, then Patterson became stronger and scored a knockdown. Marciano Frazier confirms my memory
Maybe a draw would have been the correct result.