Was Anthony Joshua's lack of an above average jab, exposed against Povetkin & Joseph Parker?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Luis Fernando, Oct 27, 2018.



Was Joshua's jab exposed to be average at best, for a super heavyweight, in his last 2 bouts?

  1. Yes

    39.3%
  2. No

    60.7%
  1. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Since power isn't always going to bail him out. Eventually, he is going to be forced to show much more than just his power and speed.

    It's constructive criticism!

    And Joshua's power looked relatively nonexistent against Joseph Parker and Carlos Takam (outside the off-balanced knockdown). Joshua was lucky Povetkin was 39 years old and ran out of stamina. Otherwise, we probably wouldn't even be having this discussion since Joshua would probably have to work on other more basic stuff.
     
  2. Ruggy456

    Ruggy456 New Member Full Member

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    The real heavyweight champion of the world, Tyson Fury will come back and give Joshua and the matchroom hype train and serious lesson.
     
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  3. edabomb

    edabomb Active Member Full Member

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    It certainly wasn't exposed as he very comfortably won both fights. You could argue it was evident.
     
  4. Flamazide

    Flamazide Well-Known Member banned Full Member

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    Wlad is one of the best jabbers in the history of the sport.
     
  5. SmackDaBum

    SmackDaBum TKO7 banned Full Member

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    Another thing with Wlad's superior jab is the cocktail effect from all of his long-range weapons. If we look at the jab alone, I think Pulev might have an even better jab than Wlad, (timing/speed/power) but it stops there. As an opponent to Wlad you need to be prepared for his cross and hook as well, which leaves them thinking and freeze enough for the jab to score. It also enables him to use his jab in more ways, You can not simply isolate specific attributes and grade them alone. A boxing match does not work like that. A great jab is the combination of everything else making it work over your opponent.

    To me, Wlads jab is:

    Height.
    Reach.
    Weight.
    Power.
    Arm stamina.
    Relaxation
    Distance control.
    Hand-eye coordination.
    Reaction Time.
    Choice reaction time.
    Footspeed.
    Footwork.
    Handspeed.
    Variation.
    Setup.
    Distractions: Left hook, right cross.

    Etc.

    But if Pulev and Klitschko competed in some sort of a game on a stationary target measuring speed, reaction time power, and accuracy I believe Pulev would come out on top.
     
  6. deadACE

    deadACE Well-Known Member Full Member

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    So Joshua has to be perfect in all departments, that seems fair. 17 fight Joshua did OK in the Wlad fight.

    Funny that Wlad was perfect, yet managed to lose to average opponents along his career. He got beat by a 17 fight intermediate in Joshua, I wonder how when he had this world class jab and cross.

    Maybe Povetkin would have had more success if he was allowed to fight against Wlad. Yet all I can remember is a mauling from the clinch master Wlad.

    This is Wlad with far superior footwork than Joshua, who needed to hug and lie on top of his opponents, but why with all this skill and talent he had. How did he ever manage to lose.
     
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  7. Ukansodoff

    Ukansodoff Deontay plz stop ducking Joshua. Thank you. Full Member

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    Joshua does have an average jab considering his arm length and most the time the reach length is an advantage, Luis if your aim to all these threads is to point out that Joshua isnt something special then you are preaching to a Boxing forum, we know Joshua isnt anything special.

    What Joshua is is pretty damn good in a weak era. So you can try knock him by pointing out his flaws but so what, whose guna do what about it? Hes the best of this era, its certainly not Fury or the joke Wilder. Even Joshua himself dosnt claim to be perfect. But hes trying to be as good as he can be and for that he gains 100% of my respect.
     
  8. GALVATRON

    GALVATRON Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Didn't anyone actually watch either fights ?

    He out jabbed Parker and he had to use a jab cautiously against Povetkin bc Povetkin times others jabs to throw punches....

    He also knocked down Breazeale down who has a solid proven chin with a lead jab????

    Joshua Jab is unproven ? Lol
     
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  9. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    No need to get so defensive and on your feelings. Nobody said Joshua has to be perfect here. But merely pointing out Joshua should work on improving his jab to at least an above average jab level for someone of his height. Otherwise, it may one day cost him.

    Joshua was lucky Povetkin was 39 years old and ran out of stamina. One day, he may not be so lucky because he maybe fighting a prime opponent of a similar style, and end up TOTALLY failing.

    Having the best jab, doesn't make you immune to defeat. You need to learn some basic logic. They have no relevance!

    Maybe Wladimir Klitschko wasn't 'perfect'. But his jab, footwork and his other attributes allowed him to dominate the heavyweight division, and stay on top whilst allowing cleaning the division up over and over again, for around a decade. In a world that had over a billion people. He was the number 1 heavyweight in the world. So unless this is matched or surpassed, despite his supposed imperfections, he would still always remain superior to Anthony Joshua. And considering he was such a limited boxer with only 3 punches (Jab, straight rear hand / cross and left hook), they must have been extra special, along with his footwork to have enabled him to dominate for that long. Otherwise, it would've been impossible, since how else would he have managed this feat, considering he doesn't have other tools? In contrast, other champions used and needed more tools to succeed.

    Wladimir Klitschko lost. But also dominated. His long dominance, makes his few losses totally irrelevant. Winning > losing. Wladimir Klitschko's dominance in terms of wins > his few losses.

    Anthony Joshua beat Wladimir Klitschko? Yet, despite Wlad being this horrible boxer with a nonexistent 1-2, he dropped Anthony Joshua on his ass at the age of 41, and was schooling his ass, and Joshua needed a gift stoppage from RABBIT punches whilst Wlad was still standing and blocking each and every one of his shots (more like Mayweather than his standard self). Yup! That makes Joshua even worse! Keep in mind, this is the same Wlad that was stopped in 2 rounds by Corrie Sanders more convincingly during his prime.

    And for added measure, this Wladimir Klitschko who had a supposed nonexistent 1-2, managed to be the only boxer to have dropped Joshua on his ass with a 1-2 at age 41. Meanwhile, no other boxer in today's era in their prime, have managed to drop this Joshua. Once again, not only exposing Joshua (for getting dropped by a 1-2 from a 41 year old guy with a nonexistent 1-2), but exposing this entire current heavyweight division era.

    Wladimir Klitschko needed to hug? Better than Joshua needing to hold and hit, hold and uppercut and rabbit punch. All illegal! Which again, exposes Joshua to be even worse! Since fouling to hurt and damage an opponent is far worse than merely holding or hugging them.

    Wlad didn't have superior footwork? Yet, he was moving circles around Joshua at the age of 41 when a boxer should have totally shot legs by then. No sprinter, marathon runner or long distance runner ever beats elite prime competitors at age 41. Yet, Wlad indisputably showed better footwork and faster footwork at age 41 whilst prime Joshua looked more robotic and stiff. Which again, makes Joshua look even worse.
     
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  10. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Joshua barely landed many clean and effective jabs on Parker. Evidence by the fact that Parker's pale skin barely even had a mark.

    Parker - Joshua fight was close and competitive. Joshua won most of his rounds by landing 1 or 2 more ineffective grazing jabs on Parker which practically had no affect on Parker. Otherwise, Joshua's effectiveness on the jab was neutralized. And he wasn't able to totally control the fight as well as other boxers with much better jabs.

    In contrast, Wladimir Klitschko landed more jabs, more effectively and inflicted more damage on a prime David Haye than Joshua did on Parker, the same Haye who was significantly faster, more athletic, more powerful and more elusive than the Parker that Joshua fought. Haye's darker skinned face was badly marked up from Wlad's jabs.

    Prime Povetkin took more jabs on his face from a past-prime, 37 year old Wladimir Klitschko in just 2 or 3 rounds, than the amount of jabs he took from PRIME Anthony Joshua in 7 rounds whilst he was 39 year old and totally shot. Showing the INSANE, SIGNIFICANT and the GULF of difference in quality between their jabs.
     
  11. Brighton bomber

    Brighton bomber Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yep you got it exactly right. I think it is because of how stiff he is. If you use that probing jab you talk about you expose your head and to use that jab you need good head movement to not leave yourself open to right hand counters. If he tried this probing jab he'd get caught because of his lack of head movement.

    So Joshua is left with a basic jab as you say he shoots from his guard. No up jabs, corkscrew jabs, probing jabs, no extending the left to control range or obscure your opponents vision like Wlad and Lewis liked to do. Without the head movement and the foot movement to allow himself to extend the left without getting caught he'll always just have a basic jab.
     
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  12. Holler

    Holler Doesn't appear to be a paid matchroom PR shill Full Member

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    With respect Luis this is revisionism and it's inclusion weakens what was otherwise an interesting argument. Changing the trainer or the location of the fight wouldn't alter the reality that Povetkin was done. If a different referee had let the fight continue he could've been seriously hurt.
     
  13. Luis Fernando

    Luis Fernando Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Povetkin looked just as much 'done' against Wladimir Klitschko after the 3 knockdowns in the 7th round, as he did against Anthony Joshua in the 7th round after the first 2 knockdowns. Difference is, the referee in Russia allowed and gave Povetkin the chance to continue, so that he can prove if he is capable of fighting on or not.

    Whilst against Joshua, the referee didn't give Povetkin the same chance to continue by stopping the fight after the 2nd knockdown.

    Would Povetkin have lasted the distance against Joshua if the referee allowed Povetkin to continue after the 2 knockdowns? We don't know for sure! Just like we wouldn't have known if Povetkin could have continued against Wladimir Klitschko after the 3 knockdowns in the 7th round, had the referee stopped Povetkin in the 7th round against Wladimir Klitschko
     
  14. deadACE

    deadACE Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Stopped reading half way because it was complete $hit that you spewed.

    Wlad was beaten by average opponents then dominated below average opponents and when he did go in with anyone slightly better he clinched, hugged and wrestled his way to victory.

    Intermediate Joshua with 17 fights corkscrewed your boys neck. I remember Wlad getting knocked around like a pin ball machine. You must get over that it's not healthy to hold on to traumatic events, you must learn to let go.
     
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  15. dinovelvet

    dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

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    Wladimir Klitschko couldn't box Povetkin at all.

    He fought him with excessive fouls like when Broner fought Shuan Porter , worse in fact , since Broner didn't have the huge size advantage over Porter like Wlad had over Povetkin.. Broner was the smaller man , Wlad was the bigger man!

    Joshua beat Povetkin cleanly and without a single illegal bear hug / octopus tactic.

    His use of the jab was better than Wlads since it broke Povetkin down and set him up for the knockout finish. The stiff jabs to the body and chest contributed to Povetkin slowing down so thats an effective use of the jab.

    Wlads jab was a non-factor against Povetkin. Couldn't keep Pov at the end of it to save his life. He just wasn't as good with the jab like Antony Joshua was :smile: