Why is Ali-Liston 2 so much more controversial than Marciano-Walcott 2?

It also has a lot to do with their character as a person. Liston's whole life was pretty shady: prison, Mafia connections, drugs, etc. It's not a stretch to believe he was involved with a fixed fight. Walcott's more positive reputation makes it more difficult to imagine him being involved with anything illegal.

 

Nobody else has heard about Walcott's claim that he missed the count? I'm pretty sure I saw it in an old newspaper article somewhere. I'll try to find it this week.

 

Yes he said it . When he got up and heard all the boos he pantomimed outrage insisting he got a short count.
A J Liebling was particularly scathing about him.

 

Saw the same thing, Ali knew he was throwing the fight

 

I actually thought Walcott beat the count, wouldn't have mattered, Joe saved himself from a brutal beating

 

I know one thing Jersey Joe was a better actor than Sonny Liston. For whatever reason I do believe both Walcott and Liston took a dive.

Walcott's refereeing in Lewiston was beyond hopeless.

Why he was listening to what Nat Fleisher was yelling out is a complete mystery. Liston was never counted out so the fight should have continued.

Cheers All.

 

Fleischer just told Walcott that the timekeeper ,who was sitting next to him had counted Liston out.

 

But the problem remains that it’s the referee was supposed to count out the fighter.

 

Picking up the count from the timekeeper which Walcott failed to do.

"When Walcott got back to Liston and looked at the knockdown timekeeper, Francis McDonough, to pick up the count, Liston had fallen back on the canvas. Walcott never did pick up the count. He said he could not hear McDonough, who did not have a microphone. Also, McDonough did not bang on the canvas or motion a number count with his fingers. McDonough, however, claimed Walcott was looking at the crowd and never at him. After Liston arose, Walcott wiped off his gloves. He then left the fighters to go over to McDonough. "The timekeeper was waving both hands and saying, 'I counted him out—the fight is over,'" Walcott said after the fight."

 

Liston was counted out without having the actual benefit of s count. The referee is charged with controlling the action and the administration of a count in the case of a knockdown. Ali refused to remain in a neutral corner. There should have been no count until he followed that established rule.

 

You can hear the timekeepers gavel counting down, Liston was on the floor in excess of 16 seconds .Ali didn't actually make a neutral corner he momentarily moved away ,only to come back. Jersey Joe never began a count . Walcott ****ed up.

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We agree Liston was down longer than 10 seconds and that Ali didn’t stay in a neutral corner.
Do you think that Liston was properly counted out, or more importantly was the result proper?

 

He wasn't properly counted out by the referee that's for sure! Walcott could have refused to accept the timekeeper's count arguing that Ali had not gone to a neutral corner as Dave Barry did in the Dempsey vTunney 2nd fight,then restarted the fight.Liston would have gone down again from the first half solid punch he took, imo so really the result would just have been delayed a little.

 

Ok, I agree. I would have continued the fight. I don’t think there’s much time left in the round, the bell might have been ringing at the end.
I just noticed that Cooley Wallace was one of the judges! The Maine athletic commission really assembled a crack crew! Gus Dorazio must have been busy.

 

No microphone for the timekeeper,Walcott didn't know where he was sitting.Amateur night all round.