Ranking Heavyweight Contenders

C. Renaldo Snipes
D. David Bey
F. Richard Dunn and John P Coopmans

 

F Michael Spinks !


Just kidding ( slightly !)

 

You're right about the location of these fighters' birth countries. However, the general public in the U.S. has always identified Golota with Eastern Europe, along with the Klitschko brothers, while Mavrovic is another matter but the argument can be made for him hailing from an Eastern European region too. I've read American articles in which both Golota and Mavrovic were referred to as Eastern Europeans.

Botha levels above Mavrovic? Maybe, though I have my doubts about this. But Botha levels above Golota? No way man. I think you mean it's the other way around.

 

Jackson during Corbetts reign. Corbett avoided him like the plague.
Smith was only a viable contender for one year from 1913 until 1914 when he lost to Carpentier.
In1910 Langford lost to JimFlynn whom Johnson toyed with twice.
In1910 Jeannette had 7 fights winning just 4.
In1911 Jeannette could only draw with Tony Ross who couldn't win a round against Johnson.

 

None were championship material ,imo.

 

Of that foursome, Golota and Ibeabuchi certainly had the physical talent. Maybe Ettiene because he knocked off future WBO claimant Lamon Brewster.

 

Not for me, but we all have our own opinions.

 

Starting in the 1880's, the following heavyweights never got a lineal title shot, but could have

1880's Peter Jackson, Frank Slavin. Both on Sullivan's championship tenure. Both could be viewed as the #1 contenders for a while.

1890's Joe Choynski - Both on Fitzsimmions, and Corbett's tenure. While Choynski probably wasn't the #1 contender he was certainly a good one.

1900-1909. Langford, Jeannette, Mcvey. Both on Burns and Jack Johnson's tenure. All three could be viewed as #1, #2, or #3 from 1907-1909

1910-1919. Langford, Smith, Jeannette, and Mcvey for Jack Johnson from 1910-1915 All four could be viewed as #1, #2, #3, and #4 contenders. Harry Wills on Jack Dempsey's tenure. Wills was #1 for a while.

We've been over this before. Jackson and Corbett met in a hotel, Corbett wanted the match in Jacksonville or New Orleans where he drew well with his other two title matches. Jackson did not want the fight in either location and blew his chance for a title shot. End of.

I think GB Smith was a fine choice for a title opponent. For example, he beat both Moran and Jess Willard. But Johnson gave them title matches instead.

Please...Langford smashed the opponents Johnson gave title shots to. It was a clear duck , and as we know Johnson pulled out of a signed match to fight Langford in 1909.

One of these days, you just might learn. Are you ever going to share the pruse between Johnson and Battling Jim Johnson? I think you're either lying to scared to offer the data.

 

Corbett only agreed to defend against Jackson once Jackson was safely out of the country,taking out pages in papers calling him a coward.
Corbett would only fight Jackson south of the Mason Dixon Line.Jackson ,fearing for his personal safety and his chances of getting a fair shake said he would not fight in the Deep South,but would fight Corbett anywhere else in the country,indeed anywhere else in the world!
Smith was only a viable challenger for a year which ended when he lost to Carpentier.
Smith beat Moran when Moran was a nobody ,as was Willard when the GunBoat fought him and by the way some gave Willard the verdict.Look up their current form when Smith beat them and,while you are at it look up Smith's form for the years prior to his one year of notoriety!

1910. Langford lost to Flynn whom Johnson toyed with.
1911.Langford drew and lost to McVey .
1913. Langford lost to Smith,drew with Bell,Jeannette,McVey,lost to Smith.
1914.Langford drew with near novice Wills drew wuith Jeannette and drew with Jim Johnson whom you repatedly call a journeyman!


1909Jeannette lost to multiple Johnson victim Ferguson. drew with nobody Sid RussellDrew with Morris Harris whom a young Johnson had kod in5rds in1905.
1910 Jeanntte drew with lhvy Jeff Clark/
1911Jeanntte drew with Jim Barry and Johnson victimTony Ross .
1912 Jeannette lost to "journeyman" Jim Johnson whom a 35 years old Jack Johnson, fighting with a broken arm drew with later!
Jeannette lost to Jeff Clark.
Lost to journeyman Jack Thompson .
How come these top contenders lost to men Johnson beat?

 

For some reason Willard Vs Gunboat Smith keeps coming up, so I made a thread on it.
https://www.boxingforum24.com/threads/gunboat-smith-vs-jess-willard.619559/

 

And,as I alluded to,many felt the green Willard deserved the decision in that fight!

 

Fearing for his safety? I never read any fighters assaulted in the ring in the south. Show me one. Bottom line the fight was there if Jackson wanted it.

 

How many world heavyweight mixed race fights had there been in the US before the projected Corbett vJackson fight?
You do know Jack Johnson's training quarters were shot up a couple of days before he defended his title against Jeffries?
And, that he received several death threats should he beat Jeffries?
This was also 16 years AFTER Corbett won the title,and 2 years after Johnson had beaten Burns ,when the White public had had time to reconcile itself to a black heavyweight champion!
Do you dismiss all the blacks that were lynched after the Jeffries v Johnson fight,the race riots, the blacks beaten up on the street, just because they were in, " the wrong place at the wrong time?
That great maestro of the trumpet, Louis Armstrong recounted how, as a boy he had to flee for his life from am angry mob in the aftermath of that fight.
You don't think if Jackson had beaten Corbett in the Deep South and taken the Whiteman's most cherished prize, the very symbol of White Supremacy,the Heavyweight Championship, that his safety might be compromised?
If not you are either dumber than I thought,which is virtually impossible,or you think the rest of us are!

Care to address this excellent post?God knows you've made enough mileage out of a Box Rec tit bit!lol

The San Francisco call., May 21, 1913, Page 8, Image 8
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85066387/1913-05-21/ed-1/seq-8/
"Majority of Spectators Do Not Agree With Referee Selig's Ruling"
". . . it can be conservatively be estimated that the cowboy was entitled to atleast a draw. Others will go further and say that he should have won."
"Willard The Aggressor
Willard had the majority of the majority of the rounds, green as he was. "

The San Francisco call., May 22, 1913, Page 8, Image 8
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85066387/1913-05-22/ed-1/seq-8/

"The outcome of the Gunboat Smith-Jess Willard bout caused considerable talk around town yesterday. Referee Selig's decision pleased many, while others maintained that Willard was entitled to a draw, and some held that the Kansan had a clear lead. Setting aside the argument over the merits of Selig's decision and getting down to the merits of the fighters, the majority seem to think that Willard is the better man of the pair, even though he was defeated by Smith on Tuesday night"
"Smith is entitled to a chance at McCarty, but he also owes Willard another match, as Tuesday night's victory was not a very satisfactory one."


The Seattle star., May 21, 1913, Page 2, Image 2
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/.../seq-2/#words=gunboat+willard+Gunboat+willard
"[Willard] rocked the Gunboat with rights and lefts, and had he been an experienced fighter, would have finished his man."


The San Francisco call., June 22, 1913, Page 43, Image 43
https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/...seq-43/#words=gunboat+willard+Gunboat+willard
"Ever since he lost that hard luck decision to Gunboat Smith last month Willard has been eager to appear before a San Francisco crowd again."
"Willard is as good a white hope prospect as we have seen around here for a long time. All he lacks is experience."

BitPlayerVesti, Today at 11:25 AM Report

 

It's all very well digging out Langford for losses and draws here and there when he was fighting pretty much every month, with many bouts against a who's who of his era. But what was the champion Johnson doing at the same time?

In 1909 he fought Jack O'Brien and couldn't even muster a win against a light-heavy he outweighed by 40lbs. O'Brien was coming off a loss to Ketchel and got KO'd by Ketchel in his next fight. Langford KO'd him too a while later. The same year Johnson fought Tony Ross, who had already been KO'd by Langford the previous year, Al Kaufmann (who earned his shot by beating Ross!) and also defended against Ketchel (another 30lb+ size disparity). Beat Jeffries in 1910 then didn't fight at all for the next two years (Langford fought 20 times in that timeframe, including three apiece against Jeannette and McVea). In 1912 he fought Fireman Jim, already a two-time Langford KO victim, then followed up with yet another former Langford victim Battling Johnson, a journeyman at best (and didn't even win). Then he followed up with the legendary Frank Moran the fighting dentist...!

 

It would have been impossible for him to."muster a win " as it was a no decison 6 rounder!lol

NB no one knows what the weight disparity was between O Brien and Johnson ,since neither weighed in!
A 35 years old Johnson had a small matter of a broken arm when he drew with Jim Johnson, who also drew with Langford,[Langford had no such handicap,] and beat Jeannette.
Moran had the one qualification for a title shot that mattered ,he was WHITE!
Q What was a journeymen doing drawing with Langford and beating Jeannette?
I look forward to your reply!