Lets Say Calzaghe Beats Jones And Retires.

I think if Clazaghe beats Roy Jones, then retires un-defeated, his legacy will be comparable to Rocky Marciano’s even though they skills lay at the opposite ends of the spectrum.

The angle I'm gunning for is Marciano beat slightly past their prime versions of Walcott and Charles for his legacy, just as Calzaghe might be able to say he beat slightly past their prime Hopkins and Jones for his legacy. 20 years from now, the " 0 " at the end of Clazaghe’s resume will make him tough to bump at 168 even if a more skilled fighter come around at that weight.

 

Good points, but I think its fair to say that Jones and Hopkins are further past their primes than Walcott or Charles were. If nothing else, they at least still possesed more market value in their day. Hopkins is something like 42 or 43 years old. Jones is 39 and on the comeback trail, plus hasn't really beaten a quality opponent in some time. At least Charles and Walcott were still true players in the heavyweight picture when Marciano fought them, plus Rocky really had no other options. At least Calzaghe can lose 10 Lbs or whatever to fight Pavlik or the unbeaten IBF super middle champ. What choices did the Rock have?

 

I dunno about that. Walcott never won a match after he meet Marciano, a Charles decline post Marciano was a sad sight. Part of Clazaghe's legacy might hinge on what Kessler and Lacy finish out their careers. Kessler was a true #1 contender, and Clazghe beat his pants off in a fight where he gave up a lot of age.

I think Clazaghe could win a few more at 175. Most of the top-level guys at light heavy are even older than he is.

In the end, Clazgahe's biggest historical challenge might be based on his geography.

Marciano was one of the last good white heavies up until recently. He was also Italian, and based in the USA. Clazahge fought mostly in Wales and England. He is also Italian, though most people don’t know it.

If Clazaghe was an American Italian, I have to say his historical standing would get a geographical boost.

 

Slightly past his prime? roy jones is 100% shot, hes a washed up fighter. He is far more over the hill than joe louis was when he fought rocky. jones hasnt beaten a world class fighter in 5 years.

as for hopkins, he is far past his prime too at 44, not slightly past his prime. he is far gone, his workrate stamina speed is gone.

 

Ever think to wonder that is because marciano physically ruined them in there fights? louis never won a fight after marciano, layne went into a nose dive after marciano, cockell and lastarza's careers went way downhill after getting knocked out. were they all shot or did rocky just ruin people?


Its best that you look at there recent fights GOING into the marciano bouts, rather than there success after they fought rocky.

 

You could say that. You could also say Louis, and Charles were visibly past it based on previous fights before they meet Marciano. The way I see it, they were over the hill already. Marciano just gave them a big shove. And Charles gave Marciano a tough match. It was Rocky's toughness and youthful stamina that broke Charles down as much as his fists.

While I agree Roy Jones is past it now, he can still beat top people, which is something Walcott, Louis and Charles really did not do post Marciano.

Jones was KO'd as bad as I've seen vs G. Johnson. I was for Johnson. I cheered the KO, and then it hit me that Jones was badly hurt. He was out for 2 minutes. I quickly switched gears from celebration to hoping to avoid something tragic.

 

Possibly because, he had just suffered two collosal career beatings. When did Hopkins or Jones ever get pounded like that? Not to mention, what types of career paths did Jones or Hopkins have, when sized up to that of Walcott's? Did they hold full time jobs with little time to train while taking fights on short notice? were they malnurished? Were they forced to fight while still mending injuries? Were they subject to the types of politics that a black fighter in the 1940's was subject to? Were they at the disadvantage of turning pro with little or no amateur experience? What types of lifestyle conditions did they have? What kinds of medical care or rehab sevices did they have access to?

These things can certainly shorten a fighter's career over the long haul, and Walcott's career, was by no means short.

Again, he took two very bad beatings, and incidentaly, have you ever taken a good look at what Charles' schedule looked like both before and after his fights with Marciano?

A good win yes, and frankly I think Calzaghe's legacy is very good. But, the fight he needs to seal the deal is a match with Pavlik. Either that, or retire. **** or get off the pot basically.

Hence, my point. Dominating the lightheavyweight division means nothing at this point.

True, but questionable. At this day in age, its not uncommon for fighters of abroad to be the best, and if we look at the big picture, we'll find that many great fighters were eventually accepted, despite their origins. Roberto Duran, Max Schmeling, Alexis Arguello, Julio Cesar Chavez and Ingemar Johanson weren't exactly from Gary Indiana you know.

Not sure I really see the relevance here, but perhaps that's because I like Calzaghe from a biased perspective. I am half Irish and half Italian, plus have a liking for English, Irish and Scottish folklore. I am a bagpipe player, boxing fan, and enjoy traveling through the British Isles, so perhaps I have a leg up on some boxing fans who don't know Calzaghe that well.

Well, Vinny Pazienza, never really accomplished as much as Joe Calzaghe, but he was a three time Italian American champion, who was far more exciting to watch, yet probably 99% of the American public doesn't know who the hell he is, so I'd say your ascertion is a tad off.

 

Jones at this age? WTF. If he retires after that I won't rate him anywhere. How about some real fights like B-Hop rematch (even at tis age his dad thoguht he lost before 12th and needed a KO, we all kow why they avoided it for ten years!), Kelly Pavlik, or even the likes of Tarver and Winky Wright! He has alot to do before any talk of legacy. Lacy and Kessler were not proven against top quality opposition so don't talk about them. Anyway he did get a few beatings from Kessler anyway, who was really at Euro level with a paper title and also got licks of Robin Reid. He didn't even give Reid a rematch who lives 2 hours away! COWARD! Frank Warren is a idsgrace to Brit boxing and I wish his fighters get KO'd whilst Barry does the propoganda. Let's see em fool the uneducated masses then!

 

I like Calzaghe and i think it's wrong to downgrade wins against Hop (he was world champion) and Lacy and Kessler... But I don't think he cleaned out the division and I don't think his unbeaten record is that great.

Joe is a modern great but not in the very top echelons in terms of resume.

 

He's consistently looked good against relatively weak opposition, and has a few good names on his resume. If he beat Jones and retired I'd rate him exactly where I do now, or maybe lower.

 

only one man backed out of that proposed fight in 2002 when serious talks took place, and it was not the welshman.

 

Yeah, that's pretty much it.

 

Agreed.

 

Pavlik's got youth on his side but I doubt he'd trouble Calzaghe that much. It would be a good win but IMO Pavlik offers little to trouble Joe.

 

That's pretty much how I see it, but I'd rather he beat Pavlik than a washed up Roy Jones.