Who was the best fighter old Foreman KO'd? Michael Moorer, a smallish heavy who was up and down like a yo-yo in his career, with a Hail Mary shot in a fight where he lost every round. Tyson destroyed guys like Savarese and Stewart who went with the distance with old George. Pinklon Thomas and Larry Holmes had great chins too. Tyson's stamina in the 80s/early 90s was just fine. He won by a wide margin every time he went the distance. Everyone was taller and had more reach than Tyson, so that's irrelevant. So Foreman's only real advantage is strength, but that's an advantage he had against everyone, including guys who beat him. You missed out combination punching, accuracy, finishing ability, defensive ability, youth, etc which funnily enough happen to be Tyson's advantages here. Stewart fought a defensive fight? Did you see George's face at the end? People thought he lost. I'm sure you can picture old plodding 40 something Foreman going in there and destroying young Tyson. But pray tell who was the best fighter old George handled like a kid? In reality, he's slow, throws one punch at a time and is too easy to hit. That dooms him here. If he eats 20 unanswered shots like he did against Holy, he's done for. The only guys who survived Tyson in the 80s did so with negative tactics and George isn't a runner or a clincher. So I think he goes out on his shield. His only chance is to land one big shot a la Moorer and no one every KO'd Tyson with one shot. A guy who goes life and death with Alex Stewart ain't beating the 80s Tyson.
Post prison Tyson against old George is at least a closer fight as Tyson had slipped enough to make it more competitive. I could see it going either way. I like George too, more than Tyson in fact. I just can't ignore the obvious when people have him not just beating, but destroying, a lightning fast deadly combination puncher, when with the exception of Moorer, he either lost or had a tough go of it whenever he faced a rated fighter. Much is made of D'Amato supposedly telling Tyson to avoid Foreman, yet Cus died in 1985, at which point Foreman was long retired and had given no indication that he was coming back. Why would a Foreman fight even be a consideration for them?
This content is protected If you go from about 3.10 Tyson is talking about possible match-ups, this is just before he was about to fight Stewart after he lost his titles. He brings up Foreman saying hopefully he can fight him or Ruddock once he gets his titles back. Doesn't sound too scared to me, would he even bring him up otherwise? I'm not saying its proof Tyson had no concerns around Foreman but its more proof than these myths and he said she said rumours that Tyson was petrified. Anyway if some of those quotes were said by him they could have been taken out of context, being an admirer of Foreman he may have said that stuff to be respectful who knows? But to use this as some kind of proof Tyson would always lose is pretty ridiculous. This comes up again and again and its utter rubbish I think the truth is Tyson was too fast and powerful for old George, he would have a few free shots on the man and there is only so much the old man would take. The detractors think Foreman would just walk Tyson down whilst receiving no punishment in the process, no short devastating counters. I think George might last a bit but he would get stopped on his feet later in the fight. This is 1991 Tyson I'm taking about, he still had decent stamina.
1st attempt: "...In December promoter Don King offered Foreman $5 million to fight Tyson sometime in 1990. "He gave me a contract and told me to sign on the dotted line," says Foreman, who rejected the offer. "I was more afraid of Don King and the dotted line than I am of Tyson..." Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...#ixzz1D22ePWEy 2nd Attempt "After Tyson's win over Razor Ruddock in their June 28 rematch, King set out to land a bout with Foreman. It was a power move that could well have left Holyfield with his crown, but with little opportunity to parlay it into another megabucks fight. However, the 42-year-old Foreman, whose gallant loss to Holyfield in April left him the heavyweight division's most popular figure, reportedly turned down a $20 million offer from King. Big George, it seemed, wanted a Holyfield rematch..." http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...0013/index.htm 3rd Attempt "Tyson is scheduled to fight for a title in March. Foreman, who said he will retire after one more fight, is tentatively scheduled to meet Michael Moorer in March. Foreman has said he would like to fight Tyson, but not if King is involved in the promotion. King said he is confident that could be worked out. Foreman did not elaborate upon the reason he is against King, who is responsible for promoting the 1974 "Rumble in the Jungle" title fight in [then] Zaire, West Africa, where he and Ali became the first fighters to receive $5 million each in an unprecedented guarantee. King, named "Greatest Promoter of All-Time" by the World Boxing Council, inspired President Mobuto Sese Seko's government to promote the first one-billion viewer fight spectacular between Ali and Foreman in Zaire's capital city, Kinshasha. The government guaranteed the $10 million which was split between Foreman and Ali, who regained his heavyweight title..." http://books.google.com/books?id=fTk...page&q&f=false There was a 4th attempt in 1999 but at that point it was George's last attempt to bring in an 8 figure payday in the ring. https://www.nytimes.com/1995/04/02/...tyson-bout-just-a-heavyweight-pipe-dream.html (in 1995 as Tyson was being released from Prison). It's important to know that while Foreman constantly called out Mike Tyson, he was truly just after the title and some big money fights if possible. Holyfield, Morrison and Moorer are likely the 3 best opponents that Foreman faced in his comeback; what do they have in common? The fight was for a belt. The only time George would have entertained a fight with Tyson is if all the marbles were on the table. If Foreman was going to risk it, the stakes needed to be high in order for a fight to take place. Whether or not you think 90s George would have beaten Mike is irrelevant, howeverk, objectively speaking the biggest impediment to this fight was Foreman, not Tyson.
This. Lose/lose fight for Tyson. Mike wins - So what ?? You just beat up a middle aged man whose prime was 20 years ago. Mike loses - Laughing stock, legacy in tatters and big pay day with Evander gone.
Moore was undefeated and only had 2 KO losses in more than 50 professionap fights. Hardly an idicator of a bad chin. The other guy who kod him was tua when he was past his prime and i shouldn't have to explain why theres no shame in beung kod by him. Holyfield said an 42 year old foreman was the hardest puncher he faced. Thomas was a coke head and holmes was inactive and coming off a loss. They also fought nothing like Foreman and werent as big. And foremans was even better. A 40 year old man standing between rounds and going to war with men half his age. Tyson didnt get any kos after the 7th. And post prison tysons stamina ranged anywhere from mediocre to garbage. By far your silliest counter argument. Height and reach is always a factor even if youre a level above the opponent. Its about styles. Both men are looking to throw big punches and hurt the other, the difference is tyson has to be close to do it. Tyson needed room to set up big combos or hayemakers so he weaved and dodged untip he was in range because he had short arms. Foreman would be doing everything he could to not let that happen and smother his work. Foreman had a jab like a sledgehammer and he wouod constantly push tyson back. Why do tyson fans keep ignoring this? Even if he managed to slip the jab and get close, then what? Now he has to slug it out with a guy 30 lbs heavier who hits harder than him. Sounds like a suicidal game plan. I repeat: unless he manages to bomb foreman out early by blitzing him and forcing a stoppage he is NOT winning. His style falls right into foremans hands and he doesnt have the versatility or reach to change his game plan and fight on the outside. No, foremans finishing ability and killer instinct were as good as anyone, he was an animal on the hunt if he sensed a guy was hurt. The cooney ko was incredibly brutal and he showed great accuracy in that fight too. I'll give tyson defense and combination punching. When it comes to defense tho even thats debatable as Tyson got very sloppy toward the end of the 80's choosing to walk through guys shots knowing he couod take them. He did have way better head movement tho. Foreman still has the better chin and hits harder with height and reach advantages. In a puncher vs puncher matchup that usually favors the bigger guy. You say "only" advantage like strength wont be a factor when tyson inevitably ends up in close range and is smothered by the much bigger, tougher foreman. Stop ignoring the obvious, bonecrusher smith, frank bruno, and even a garbage c level mitch green effortlessly tied tyson up and outmuscled him. He did. I saw it twice. Stewart was hurt early and proceed to get on his bike and run. That was also incidentally the only time foremans face looked like that so it says stewart apparently either hit harder than people give him credit for or he had some illegal loaded gloves. Either way, he fought a smart fight on the outside only engaging foreman when he was forced to. And he was 6'3 with long arms. Tyson wasnt. Foreman handled the similarly sized similar style Cooper and qawi like kids. No one had the strength to keep foreman off of them, not even juiced up muscular freaks like morrison or briggs who abanded any thought of attempting to slug it out with foreman and changed their styles. I already agreed with you if tyson landed a big 20 punch combo he might be able to stop foreman. I just dont think it would happen because of the clash of styles. Douglas jabbed tysons head off and destroyed him with uppercuts, 2 punches foreman excelled at.
Just to save me trawling thru a bit at what time does the "Foreman dying of rigamortis" comment appear?
Comeback Foreman was all smoke and mirrors.............mega $$$$ for minimum risk........he picked Holyfield because Holy was considered at that time , not a legitimate Heavy............Foreman, while still wearing sun glasses to cover the beating he took, even admitted a week after the fight on a HBO fight end cap that if Holy would have been a real puncher he would have been in real trouble. Foreman liked to pick fighters, when he eventually stepped up from fighting bums, that had soft chins....Stewart, Saverese, Briggs, Morrison ,Schultz and yes Michael Moorer who packed pure glass............even the washed up Tyson after prison would wax Moorer in one round max, guaranteed. Tommy Chin vs Tyson, lol, another blow out. Tyson also beat Stewart/Saverese much more decisive. Comeback Foreman is simply too slow to react to Tyson's incoming , especially the pre Douglas version and the Ruddock version would also give him a savage beating, no doubt, Tyson would come undewrs Foremans slow as molasses jab all nite long countering with hooks and straight rights plus brutal bodywork......the old man aint taking it, most likely Ref mercy stoppage. I was live ringside when Tyson fought Ruddock and the shots Tyson landed on the body sounded like 22's going off...........Razor was a universally much, much more recognized dangerous opponent from the in the know boxing world then Foreman at any time in his comeback.
Glad you found this link. I watched it a few times in the past but whenever someone calls me out to find it I end up spending hours upon hours looking for it. Thanks for saving us the time and trouble!!
Agreed while Foreman's comeback was impressive, it gets so overrated. Everyone uses it as an example of how the 90's era was so weak that an ageing fighter from the 70's could come back and dominate, when actually he did nothing of the sort - when did he fight the other 90's guys? Like Tua, Bowe, Lewis, and yes Tyson? He didn't. Sorry I just don't see why everyone thinks old Foreman can beat Tyson, it ain't happening. Everyone just looks at Foreman vs Frasier and immediately thinks he would do the same to Tyson, when actually the way Frazier and Tyson fought were a lot more different than people realise. Foreman is the one who gets stopped here.
Cooper, Holyfield and Martin all had Moorer on the deck. His chin was shaky. And that's Foreman's only KO of a top tier heavyweight in his comeback. That doesn't exactly bode well for him destroying Tyson. Now look at Tyson's best KOs and there's just no comparison. No comment on Foreman's inability to KO men who were easily KO'd by Tyson? Sugar Ray Leonard said Marcus Geraldo hit him hardest. What does that prove? Thomas wasn't a coke head. He went cold turkey in his teens. He hadn't even been floored prior to facing Tyson. Holmes was still a ranked contender years later, boxed to the age of 50 and only one person put him down for the count. Tyson KO'd Ribalta in the tenth round, btw. Moorer was old Foreman's only late rounds KO. Regardless, 80s/early 90s Tyson had no problem going the distance. Height and reach aren't the be all and end all. Otherwise how did squat, short armed guys like Frazier, Marciano and Tyson ever win so many fights against taller, longer armed opponents? Pretty much everyone Tyson beat had height and reach over him and it didn't do them much good. Foreman was also slow as molasses. He didn't use any lateral movement. Nobody found him hard to hit. Anyone who was slow, didn't move and not hard to hit was in trouble against Tyson. Foreman will eat at least five Tyson punches before he lands one. If he lands one, since Tyson was also harder to nail cleanly than credited. What's Foreman going to do when he's being hit with fast powerful counters, the likes of which he never encountered in his career, that he can't even see coming? Pushing Tyson away isn't going to get the job done. What's he going to do after five or six rounds of this and his 40 year old legs are starting to creak? Stand there and slug it out with a much faster, more accurate, hard hitting and harder to hit opponent? Running or holding to lose a decision isn't an option for George. Sounds like suicide to me. Actually, a big slow moving target who wasn't hard to find would be ideal for a sharpshooting KO artist like Tyson. The guys who lasted with Tyson either ran or held and Foreman did neither. Foreman's only chance is if he lands a huge shot that KOs Tyson and no one ever KO'd Tyson with one shot. But it was Gerry Cooney, who hadn't had a fight for about two years. I daresay if Tyson had fought Cooney you'd have him listed as another garbage c-list fighter that he knocked out. Foreman was unable to finish Stewart despite having him down a couple of times. Max Baer was a hard hitter, bigger than Joe Louis with a better chin and longer arms, but Louis the deadly counterpuncher won that one. Like he smothered Holyfield, Moorer, Morrison, Stewart? None of them had any difficulty landing on him but Tyson will? All the above were either knocked out or fought to survive and lost almost every round on the scorecards against Tyson. Do we need to go through a list of all the guys who lasted with old Foreman and either beat him or ran him close? Stewart fought a smart fight but he clearly wasn't just running as you claimed, otherwise he couldn't have done all that damage to Foreman. Stewart was 6'3 with long arms when he fought Tyson too. He lasted about 2 minutes. So Cooper and Qawi were the best fighters that old Foreman handled like kids? I hope you'll agree that neither was remotely the threat to him that Tyson would be. If they're the best examples you can find it doesn't bode well for him handling Tyson. I think this is the most likely outcome. Douglas also fought nothing like Foreman.
The Jack Nichoson line was from 1996 but not from THAT mag, it was in an article from my newspaper, son.
