Personally think this nails it. If he were taller people and fatter people would respect that more...people don’t realize he used his shortness to his advantage and made himself shorter. They perfectly accept Tua Tyson Frazier even Langford to be able to compete today but dismiss Marciano because of a few pounds. Marciano had freakish strength for his size that’s not a fairy tale but a fact. But to get back on point had he taken on Valdes Satterfield and Patterson I think that would have been enough for some but Patterson wouldn’t be Patterson if he faced Marciano like u said taking his ranking down a notch. Just more prime guys and he would have been viewed better
One more win. At 50-0, people would have liked the round number a lot more. In terms of the Patterson argument he might have ruined him and Floyd wouldn't have accomplished what he did, just a thought.
Liston turned pro in 53, rocky had just won the title. Patterson beat Moore in 56 and won the vacant belt, rockys last fight was 55. At this time liston was still green and only won 13 fights, but patterson already had more than 30 fights under his belt. At 32 years of age and no losses, it isnt unreasonable to ask Rocky to have a tune up fight and then challenge patterson for the title in say, March of 1957. Assuming Rocky wins, he can clear up business with that pesky nino Valdez to silence the critics in october. Rocky takes a break and fights ingemar johanson in February of 58. Johanson and Patterson fight each other for another shot at rocky, zora folley fighs rocky in July 58. Rocky defends against patterson again in Nov 58. Meanwhile, liston is now a serious contender having just crushed rugged contenders mike dejohn and dangerous slugger cleveland Williams. Rocky knows the public is clamoribg for a fight with him and so he makes a light defense in April 59 against brian london then fights skilled prospect eddie machen whose 30-1-0 in september. Liston closes out the year with his ko of Valdez. Rocky vs liston is announced as a christmas present to the fans but it wont happen till the followibf year. It is heavily promoted. Rocky is now 36 years old and his record 56-0. Liston beats machen in march and is now 30-1. Rocky and liston fight in July. Rocky retains his championship in an epic slugfest and retires, celebrating his 37th birthday a few months later and becomes an even bigger global icon for having beaten a scary contender and boasting an undefeated record of 57-0. I realize now that the OP said no more than 5 additional fights. You can subtract the "tune up" before his first bout eith Patterson, the brian London fight, and the Patterson rematch so that he retires 54-0 and just under 37 years old when he beats Liston. ^if marciano could have navigated a career timeline like i laid out and beats Floyd Patterson, ingemar Johanson, zora folley, Eddie machen, nino Valdez, and sonny Liston and those guys go on to do great things with their careers after losing to rocky, i feel like it would be criminal to not have rocky in top 5 ATG, especially considering his age and size. The biggest criticism rocky gets is the age, size, and health of his opposition, but the above names were all prime, athletic, hard hitting guys 6ft+ so thered be no excuses to be made.
He would need to defeat Liston, but the timeline wouldn't work for a swarmer/slugger with back problems in his 30's. He did the best with what he had, and that's all we can ask.
He really had so few elite opponents. A longer stay at the top in and of itself would greatly strengthen his argument to be considered top 10.
The biggest things that hurt Marciano are twofold: 1) His lack of size 2) His best opponents were somewhat old I like Marciano and would like to rank him highly. Names on resume check out, but when I start considering the H2H portion of a top 10 ranking I find it hard to envision him beating guys like Lewis, Wlad and other shw champions. Then again If Louis is super-highly rated despite his lack of size, why not Marciano?
Marciano is already a lock for top five. There wasn’t anything more he could have done with the career he had. On the basis that a champion beats the best fighters in the world, runs out of competition and cleans the house before retiring, he did it. He was not young enough to have continued much longer. It’s not possible for him to have been younger or taller or to have been born at a time where he could have enhanced his physique to the agreeable extent that meets the approval of modern fans born after his death. Most great bigger fighters from the future put into marcianos time would not be great enough to beat Marciano without the modern advances that made them relevant in their own time. It was not possible for the biggest men to be that great before then. Before 1960 giants were cannon fodder to the best 190 pounders in the world for over a hundred years. So head to head, isnt it equal a fantasy (as any other) to ask great fighters from the future to meet champions from the past only after having been reared in the older eras with those champions?
Only under certain criteria that includes stuff that only became relevant after Marcianos time. To be fair, there are many more champions to fit into a top 10 now. But Marciano is top 5 level even if there are more champions of that level.
Rocky Marciano is one of the top 5 boxers named Rocky Marciano who got beat by Ted Lowry. But Marciano a top 5 heavyweight? He isn't a top 50,000 heavyweight since Marciano wasn't a heavyweight by modern standards and never fought any heavyweights by modern standards. Was Rocky Marciano a top 5 180 pound fighter? No but I would say Marciano is a top 250,000 180 pound fighter. That is the best I can give him since I am in a good mood.
Maybe that was because he was from the past? Kind of tough to knock somebody for not being alive at a later time isn’t it?
I could season a stew the size of the Mediterranean Sea with the amount of salt in Farooq's post. The Bonneville Salt Flats have nothing on him.
Valdes, Baker, Ingo, Patterson, Liston. If he beat those guys he'd be a h2h HW force. As it is, he often gets dismissed against bigger men based on his size. But if he managed to beat those it would be hard arguing against him. Right now he's clearly an ATG fighter, it's just some unfairly rank him by matching him against people who are heavier than him.
I would favor CM Punk in a boxing match against Rocky Marciano. That is how bad Marciano was. Punk would probably win by KO in maybe 3 rounds unless Punk held back out of respect. So I will say if there are 7 million people on the his planet. The only ones Marciano are better at in boxing are the old ones and the ones paid by the mafia to take dives for him.
Wlad struggles to be a top 10 HW of all time. He got sparked out by Purity, Sanders and Brewster, then used German matchmaking to retain the title for an extended period of time. His bro Vitali should be ranked higher. If Marciano had beaten Liston that should get him top 5 for a reasonable person as it puts to bed the theory about his lack of size against big men, which is always the argument against him.
