Where would Rocky Marciano's place be if his title defenses read like this: Jersey Joe Walcott - wins title (Sept '52) Jersey Joe Walcott - 1st defense (May '53) Roland La Starza - 2nd defense (Sept '53) Bob Satterfield - 3rd defense (Dec '53) Earl Walls - 4th defense (May '54) Ezzard Charles - 5th defense (June '54) Ezzard Charles - 6th defense (Sept '54) Nino Valdes - 7th defense (Dec '54) Don Cockell - 8th defense (May '55) Archie Moore - 9th defense (Sept '55) Hurricane Jackson - 10th defense (Dec '55) Bob Baker - 11th defense (Feb '56) ---------------RETIRE-------------------------------- 55-0 (12-0 in Title Fights) A) Based on what we know can he manage this timeline and beat the challengers successfully? B) Assuming he wins, where would rank in your Top 10 ATG List?
Depends on the fashion in which he wins If he did that I'd probably still keep him tied in 1st. Nothing really impressive you added, just more frequency against lesser fighters
I already place Marciano among the top 10 of all time best heavyweights, so adding in Satterfield, Valdez, Walls, Jackson, and Baker wouldn’t add much, since Marciano beat the guys that beat them. Satterfield had excellent power, but not much else and he was crushed by Layne and Johnson. I doubt Marciano would’ve got much credit for beating Satterfield. Valdez was a very good, but inconsistent fighter. Valdez wasn’t deserving of a title shot in 1954, so if Marciano beat him in 1954 it wouldn’t prove much, since Valdez needed to avenge his loss to Moore or Baker, since a year previously both beat him decisively. Valdez had his chance to get a shot at Marciano by beating Moore in a re-match, but he blew it. Earl Walls only had two wins against a shot Rex Layne, so he wouldn’t have been a very credible opponent. Hurricane Jackson was completely destroyed by Valdez and never avenged the loss. Beating Charles and Layne, who were previously ruined by Marciano was hardly enough to justify him getting a title shot. Bob Baker had a good run in 1955, but a win over Valdez just wasn’t enough considering Moore beat him twice and Marciano stopped Moore.
Moore beat Baker once. I think you may be thinking of Valdez whom he beat twice. But regardless, this scenario would answer the questions that so many bring up when questioning Marciano's ranking. I personally have him in my top ten but I can see the issue. Wins over big time bangers like Satterfield and Walls and wins over two big heavies like Valdez and Baker would definitely have quieted those doubting Marciano.
If Rocky fought Nino Valdes three months after the tip of his nose was split in half by Charles he'd have lost. He needed that time off to recover.
If Marciano had come along some 5-6 years earlier and beat who he beat, it would become a lot harder to dismiss his wins over the old greats. I can't see anybody that he had available to fight that he didn't fight, and that would significantly change his ATG status. Beating a younger Louis (assuming he could, and he might) would have made the biggest difference. Fighting Valdes would have helped dismiss notions that he couldn't beat big guys. On the other hand if he'd hung in there for a bit longer and beat Ingo and Patterson (assuming he could and he might) that would also have helped, but by how much? Nobody really rates those two terribly high on an ATG scale. The man did what he could when he could though, and you can't fault him for that.
I'd have him as a fairly clear 3. I'm not sure he had that many big fights left in him though. I'd pick him over any of them, but actually doing them all, and not dropping any is another thing entirely. Plus fighting more often wouldn't suit his style. Another what if. Where would he rate if he was persuaded came back and fought Patterson, both if he won and (as I'd suspect he would) lost?
It would make it hard to rank him outside your top four at heavyweight. At least you would have to make a head to head argument to do so. In practice I don't think that the proposed schedule would be realistic for him, or at the very least it would be bought at the cost of a loss of consistency. .
1st. Marciano fought 37 times from 49-51, that's over 1 fight a month. Marciano's durability, monk-like mindset and bomb outs were made for this fast paced matchmaking. Marciano only slowed down when he was champ, most likely because his manager only set required fights with him to prolong the reign. 2. If marciano came back to beat Patterson id still keep him at tied for #1, though if he beat Patterson and Ingo THEN I'd think he'd have best claim for GOAT at heavy and top 3 p4p. If Marciano LOST, I'd probably drop him to around 5th. Marciano has beaten better than Patterson, so even if he's coming off of a layoff I'd be disappointed. Then again, I love a fighter who knows when to retire, so maybe that's just my bias.
