What if Marciano never existed?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Jan 13, 2019.



  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Man, you would have some insane Jack Dempsey battles up and down this board, that's for sure.
     
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  2. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    My take on Dempsey is that Marciano really helps, as you say, via "deflects a lot of flack"

    With no Marciano, there would have been no white American champion from 1937 on, and only Johansson as a white champion at all. I think this total domination (which was pretty strong as is) would etch even more starkly Dempsey's drawing of the color line.

    Hard to see with no Marciano how any observer in the late 20th or in the 21st century could take Dempsey's career seriously considering subsequent history.
     
  3. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Walcott and Charles engage in another 4 bouts each !!
     
  4. Rope-a-Dope

    Rope-a-Dope Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The dog I had as a kid might have ended up named Ingemar. :eeek:
     
  5. Reason123

    Reason123 Not here for the science fiction. Full Member

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    This thread and 100 others would not exist.
     
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  6. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I really don't buy this at all.

    The only one Dempsey avoiding that mattered was Wills. He could have fought a ton of black challengers, and still avoided Wills, and it would do him no credit.

    Also there's been Wlad and Fury. I don't see why three white europeans could do it and not a white American. Plus the conditions were totally different then. There's a good case that the hardships a white person lived through back then were closer to what a black person goes through now, than what a white person goes through now.
     
  7. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Vingo would've lived a healthier life. I think that's the most important thing that everyone is overlooking.
     
  8. KasimirKid

    KasimirKid Well-Known Member Full Member

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    "If Marciano never existed," this forum would have a lot less to talk about.
     
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  9. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Yea and we would have one less heavyweight greater than Dempsey.
     
  10. edward morbius

    edward morbius Boxing Addict Full Member

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    "The only one Dempsey avoiding that mattered was Wills."

    If one thinks Langford and Godfrey didn't matter.

    The problem would be w/o Marciano how many victories in heavyweight championship fights would white fighters have had over black fighters in the whole 20th century? The answer is two. Willard outlasting a 37 year old Johnson in a finish fight. Ingo KO'ing Patterson before losing two returns.

    w/o Marciano who would be the most successful American white heavyweight after 1937 and the fall of the color line. Well, it boils down to a choice between Layne and Quarry, I think.

    Some of course would have no problem buying into the Dempsey myth anyway. But others are going to ask how you can be the best w/o fighting the best? with the lack of depth in black heavyweights in the 1920's explained by an almost total color line.

    *There were seven victories by white fighters over black fighters in heavyweight championship bouts in the 20th century. Five were by Marciano.

    "Wlad & Fury"

    Yes. That is an argument which could be made finally in the 21st century. So drawing a conclusion from these big fellows and taking it back to little Dempsey might be accepted by some.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2019
  11. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    If Marciano never existed the 50s HW boxing scene would be a lot more dull. Maybe Layne becomes champ for a very short run. Maybe Archie holds it for a few years. Who knows. There were many great white American fighters and Europeans over the years. Klitschkos ruled the division for what 15 years? Race always seems to come up when discussing Marciano. I suppose some people think he is only like for his skin color as opposed to his unique aggressive and very entertaining style. The Klitschkos in comparison were a bore and they don’t seem to have a very defensive fan base. I also happen to think Fury is the best of the bunch currently...FYI nothing to do with skin tone.
     
  12. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Langford didn't by the time Dempsey was champion, and Godfrey didn't until after.

    Without Rocky I think Layne likely would have held it at some point too. He did beat Walcott. Morrison beat Foreman. Golota beat Bowe. There's still other championship level wins.

    Like I said, it seems pretty silly to ignore how much of people's lives have changed since Dempsey was around. The enviornment that produced him, isn't producing these later white fighters.
     
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I think there's a title picture cluster **** between Walcott, Charles, Patterson and Moore.

    Legacy wise I reckon the only real change is that Moore is seen as more of an ATG than he already is.
     
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  14. Saintpat

    Saintpat Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Great dog name. I have a cat named Canelo. (He thinks he’s a tiger who escaped from the jungle.)

    Biggest impact might be that a 1976 movie captures the heart of the country when club fighter Roland Balboa goes the distance with Apollo Creed.
     
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  15. Gazelle Punch

    Gazelle Punch Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Lmao
     
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