Lol! Evander was just flat out ordering PEDs from an underground lab using Ol’ Evans name. And the best they can come up with is the one Vitali doctor incident in the ams.
That's why I relied with "shrug". I mean, the doctor prescribed the stuff to him its not as if it was some sort of underground program that he got bust in. It was his fault for not checking the substance against a list, but I guess he just trusted the doc and went ahead. Pretty dumb in retrospect. I suppose Ellerbe would just say that the scrip could have been written after the fact to cover things up. SHRUG again. The dude will believe what he believes. All I can say in his proper pro boxing career Vitali was tested all the time and always came up clean.
Yep. And really does ellerbe’s opinion count? It is funny to watch him put in his ‘TWO CENTS’ on these threads. I guess he’s good for entertainment and proving our points. Lol! The irate PM’s are gold and a sign of victory.
Let's see: One guy can punch and has an iron chin. The other guy had a glass chin and cherry picked feather fisted John Ruiz at HW. Really tough one this. Can't decide!
C'mon, Holyfield SHATTERS that fragile mandible. Busts that suspect chin up BAD. Jones will be more unconscious than he was against Tarver or Johnson.
Yep. Overwhelming evidence as to Evander's intentional guilt as a pro. Much less evidence of intentional guilt for Vitali, and it was as an amateur. Also, Vitali's physique was less questionable than most other in shape modern boxers. He and Holyfield are not very comparable. On a totem pole of ped guilt, Evander probably ranks at the very top. Vitali toward the lower end.
No I didn't! Since for every RANDOM and INCONSISTENT feat of Holyfield, there is at least one equally unimpressive feat for Holyfield. Hence his INCONSISTENCY! He never had any sustained dominance or greatness because it's obviously evident by the fact that he was an unnatural specimen from the overuse of unnatural substances for some of his biggest fights. Thus, I can't take an athlete that was that INCONSISTENT + that UNNATURAL too seriously.
Any version of Toney competing at heavyweight was 'shot'. By virtue of him being fat, obese, overweight and far above his natural weight division. Since by that point, he was focused more on food and overeating than training to remain in his ideal weight class. Whilst Holyfield was a muscular heavyweight with nowhere near as much body fat. James Toney was a joke of a heavyweight and Holyfield was an even bigger joke for losing to some obese dude who never belonged at heavyweight whilst he was a natural lean specimen at heavyweight himself.
Holyfield still being able to fight well past the age of 40 shows you how woeful the HW landscape was at the time. FOUR years after getting pieced up by James Toney , he took Sultan Ibragmov the distance in a title fight.. Four years later !! And then a year after that he arguably beat Valeuv when he was pushing 50 in another world title fight !! Suckton Igbragabum and Nick Valeuv were two of the best fighters of that era
I think RJJr beats him, but agree that the Real Deal that fought Big Daddy would be the most dangerous. That's a helluva fantasy matchup.
There's no evidence that Manny was juiced to the gills. Same with JMM. However (unless my memory is incorrect) you believe that Manny didn't and JMM did. So don't talk about "evidence". Your objectivity is obviously compromised.
I have said numerous times that if Manny tested positive, it wouldn't surprise me. Most top athletes are probably on roids. Still, there's no evidence on Manny. The other things I've said is that there was never any sudden increase in muscle mass in Manny or power, he obviously lost power as he moved up. We never saw his body change drastically. JMM's body looked different in the 4th fight and he was knocking Pac down and out with exactly the same shots he never hurt Pac with before. This is anecdotal evidence but my dad walked into the room when the weigh in was on, neither of us is Filipino or have any reason to be biased toward Filipinos, he saw JMM and immediately commented on his shoulders and acne, and how he looked overall bigger and on roids. You are right that JMM has never tested positive though. But if I post that is because many JMM fans parroted that Manny was on roids for years, and then when JMM looked suspicious, they didn't want to hear it. A little taste of their own medicine. I'm a JMM fan too.
