Dempsey doesn't belong in HW top 5's. Perhaps not HW top 10's.

Ok fair enough.

One of the reasons I don't put Frazier higher than Dempsey in my list is because IMO the Ali that Frazier beat was not the best Ali. This is all opinion of course and I have seen lengthy discussions on this site regarding this, but IMO the pre-exile was a better fighter. Regardless of whether it was proven in the ring in the first part of his career, Ali was just as tough and was capable of taking the kind of shots he took post-exile (ability to take a punch generally diminishes as a boxers career lengthens). The difference between the pre and post-exile Ali was that he was untouchable (not literally) in the 60s. The pre-exile Ali would never have rope-a-doped Foreman. He would have boxed him silly just like he did to Liston. So IMO Frazier beat the a version of Ali who would not have been Number 1 on my list (he'd still be right up there though). Anyway this is one of the reasons why I rate Frazier one place behind Dempsey.

I have to disagree on the wording that Tunney destroyed Dempsey. He beat him easily. However as it has been noted this was a rusty, past his prime Dempsey. The Frazier that was destroyed by Foreman in the first fight was a prime Frazier, or at worst, much closer to his prime and much more active than the Dempsey that lost to Tunney. The fact that Frazier was so easily manhandled in his prime, as opposed to Dempsey being comprehensively outboxed at the end of his career also is another reason why I rate Dempsey higher than Frazier.

I hope this clears up my thought process for you. Remember it's just an opinion. ?

 

Thanks for the info. Much appreciated.:thumbsup

 

Dempsey p4p top10?

 

For whatever it is worth he is better pound for pound than anybody his own size or bigger.

 

Ha! So you read that tunney book i reccomended to you?

Did you like it?

 

Marciano is better pound for pound. So are Joe Louis and Muhammad Ali.

 

You could argue that Marciano achieved more than Dempsey in the ring but realisticaly he is going to be the underdog if the two of them duke it out.

Marciano did not have as many tools or refinements as Dempsey, and while he would probably have beaten Dempseys oponents I doubt that he would have destroyed them the way Dempsey did.

Louis and Ali are obviously much bigger than Dempsey and that has to be taken into acount even if they could beat him head to head. For example if Dempsey is a 40/60 underdog against both of them then that is prety good if he is giving up 20 lbs to each of them.

 

That is just your opinion. I would not make Marciano the underdog and i'm not alone in that position.


However, a pound for pound ranking is mostly about what is achieved in the ring.

Maybe Dempsey had more refinements, but Marciano has other things going for him like stamina, consistency, having never been beaten.

Yes, but Louis and Ali are far ahead achievement wise to compensate for their extra weight. Again, i don't understand your emphasis on how they would fair head-to-head when we're discussing p4p rankings. Is it because Dempsey's resume doesn't stack up with either of them?

 

Its just your opinion that Marciano and Joe Louis are better ,and one I don't agree with, I think Dempsey beats both of them,which is just my opinion.

 

thank you.

 

IMO Dempsey would have gone unbeaten against marciano's opponents in the era Rocky fought, and Marciano would have lost fights in Dempsey's era under the conditions he fought.

 

I feel the desire to comment on some points in the Janitor-Chris P. discussion.