Sometimes the title record can be misleading especially if a famous old champ is recycled on the way out. The Chacon third fight is a big whatever since he was clearly faded, came very close to winning and Chacon was brilliant. The Lopez fight has little bearing too. I wouldn’t say he “struggled badly” vs. Castillo or I wouldn’t describe it like that. He won clearly in fight I and III and fight II was dead even (he may have led?) and was stopped on a cut that was possibly a headbutt and Castillo was a quality guy. The Herrera loss and how lopsided it was affects him I agree as does the Hafey loss. Hafey was a murderous puncher and Olivares didn’t train that’s on him no doubt. I think as a fighter Olivares is rated accordingly. He was superb and could do it all. Box and bang. He probably lost some fights due to lack of focus but he’s still without question a top 3 Mexican and Top 3 Bantam ever.
I've seen Tunney cited as an innovater a few times. What did he actually innovate? The thing about Corbett innovating is rubbish too, he was more just someone with exceptional reflexes.
Ali Sugar Shane Mosley- If he gets lumped in with the other two Sugars. He's not in the same state as them. Gene Fullmer- he needed the deck stacked in his favor. A foul fighter in my view.
In public/casual talk: 1. Tyson 2. Mayweather 3. Ali On this forum: 1. Lennox Lewis 2. Vitali Klitschko 3. Jimmy Young Shout-out to the forum Tuanator
I cant think of a time on this forum when the majority of people favored Corbett in a H2H matchup I'd almost say he's underrated, though I'm also one that doesn't hold him in very high regard
Mosley is an interesting shout. In hindsight he was probably a little overrated during his pomp; throughout 2000-01 he was suddenly catapulted to contention for the pound for pound title, which was a little premature. Jones, Trinidad (dodgy nature of the decision against De la Hoya aside) and arguably even Mayweather all had deeper resumes until that point. Brilliant win over Oscar in 2000, but before that his competition at Lightweight hadn't been all that great, and most of them were tailor-made for Mosley's style. However, I'm not sure he's particularly overrated these days, as most acknowledge that people probably jumped the gun a little back then and can take in to account Shane's shortcomings. I mean, the guy was basically clueless against really good defensive fighters who he couldn't just unload dazzling combinations on; Forrest x 2, Wright x 2, Mayweather. None of those fights were close, and three of them were basically shutouts. He just wasn't versatile enough. I think he's rated about right overall; excellent fighter, good to watch, but not quite a genuine great.
Honestly and without bais: 1. Sullivan 2. Dempsey 3. Marciano Sullivan had exceptional talent. Speed, one punch KO power, stamina when in shape (rarely) , chin and heart. The problem is that he was essentially a drop dead fall down drunk from about 1883 on who fought absurdly weak competition for most of his career. He may have had the tools to be a truly great fighter if he trained and learned but he never did. He is a creation of the press. Dempsey very similar in the under achieving category. Terrific skill set but highly inactive under achiever. He did do enough to be considered a top ten all time H2H at cruiserweight, maybe but those who rate him an all time great heavyweight are reaching. He is another who was manufactured by the media. Marciano of the three maximized his talent. He was a proven great fighter. He is an all time great P4P heavyweight. However, the army of zealots that claim he was an all time great, top H2H heavyweight are delusional. It speaks in defiance of facts including physical limitations, style and quality and size of actual opposition.
Sure i'm his biggest fan, but when i see Ali on the lists I find it unbelievable. I know he wasn't the perfect fighter and had his drawbacks, but I just don't know how someone with his longlivety fighting and beating the best there was over 2 decades ducking no one can be overrated. Sure enough he had 2 or 3 fortunate decisions in there which all fighters benefit from, but whilst I understand many not seeing him as the greatest and not wanting to worship at his feet but overrated?