In fantasy fights, there's of course no "right" or "wrong". All we can do, is use our knowledge and common sense. You score very high on knowledge - not so high when it comes to common sense. But that's just my opinion!
Lmao Liston and Marciano are two of the best HWs EVER! Both unarguably top ten and an argument for both of them to be in the top 5. I like Usyk but he’s fought no one. He will soon and then we will know more. Watch Marciano v Moore or Marciano v Louis (wasn’t at his best then but showed how strong he is and quicker then people give him credit for). Marciano La starza Marciano v Charles Marciano v Matthews he looks better in all those fights then in Walcott 1 which many say he over trained for and didn’t look as good. When you watch Marciano closely you see although he gets hit it’s often not cleanly he could fight on the outside or inside had great power in both hands and amazing stamina. He was awkward (which may not be aesthetically pleasing but it was to his benefit). Now to Sonny...no offense to Usyk but he probably doesn’t last three rounds against Liston in his prime. Liston gets underrate due to his poor performances against Ali but in his prime he was the most feared fighter ever. Probably the best or second best jab in history with a reach comparable to modern shw. Usyk has never seen anything like him or Marciano. Unless he proves otherwise I’d have to pick those two to wipe the floor with him.
Dang... The Marciano-Walcott is a great fight, and a great display of sharp counterpunching, movement, angles, slick defense, against nonstop pressure powerpunching and true self-belief. A real dogfight. Couldn't disagree more. Very impressive sub-200lb. If you're picturing them against true HW greats, yes, they have trouble. Sub-200lb, they dont get better with very few exceptions. Thats one of my favorite fights. If you watch Walcott, Charles, Marciano, Louis, and Moore and aren't impressed, I don't know what to say. All impressive in their own ways. Those are the best sub-200lb'ers ever. Ever.
Most modern CWs aren't sub 200 on fight night. That's the weight they boil down to for the weigh in. Huck, Briedis, Gassiev etc all enter the ring at around 210-215. Usyk I believe is around the same weight. They're essentially old school heavyweights. Just something to throw out.
I’ll rephrase and say Usyk hasn’t fought anyone of the Marciano Liston Patterson Walcott Charles Moore level. He’s accomplished a lot in his short career and in no way was that an insult to him...he reminds me of a south paw Walcott. But his career as of now has been short.
Usyk’s speed, gas tank, and ring IQ would make him very formidable in the division. I don’t think he has the punch to really take out the heavies but he would UD many of them from that era.
I think he beats both Marciano and Patterson on points (maybe stops Patterson) but could definitely lose to both. Outboxes Jersey Joe and Ingo. But towards the latter part of the decade where Liston was in his prime, he beats Usyk and by pretty definitive KO/TKO. However who knows Usyk could pull it out of the bag in that one. Just as Marciano could or Patterson
It has always been a bit of a holy grail of Marciano haters, to find a contemporary cruiserweigth to beat him! We have seen Jones, Mormeck, Toney, Haye etc all wheeled out as possible candidates, and it always ended the same way, when they lost a fight in such a way that the prediction looked ridiculous! For the first time since I have been posting on this forum, we actually have a credible challenger! Bring it on!
He'd do better against Marciano than Lastarza,Cokkell, and Layne, of that I am certain,and probably Charles and Moore too. Six three, 200lbs +, excellent fast footwork, high work rate and a south paw to boot, he is a real problem for most heavyweights . Usyk has a very live chance against,Ortiz,Parker,Breazeale,Pulev right now.imo
To a large degree those names have all benefited from the passing of time, which tends to fix fighters on a pedestal and render them unassailable to regular criticism or evaluation. Of course there's generally a sound reason for that happening in the first place, but nonetheless it can sometimes result in a slightly myopic view of things. Certainly Usyk hasn't fought anyone with the reputation or any of the above, but then that would be the case for most modern fighters, He's certainly not fought a string of nobodies, and has in my opinion fought enough skilled, power-punching opponents for us to reasonably evaluate his performance against historically more well-regarded fighters if we strip away the gilded sheen and apply a cold hard eye to things. But certainly this argument will become clearer the longer Usyk progresses with his career.
I can't see anyone but Joshua and Fury giving him problems right now. Wilder and Parker would get embarrassed, Ortiz and Povetkin would get outworked. Pulev hasn't fought any live bodies in years and is more or less retired at this point. Certainly his crude jab and grab game would be easy to figure out for a fighter of Usyk's level. Breazeale is just terrible. There are stories of him getting beaten up by Gassiev in sparring, so I don't give him a hope in hell of even touching Usyk.
