Usyk vs Frazier

Fraizer, he caught up with Ali, he can do Usyk, however as a southpaw he'd definitely keep him honest. I doubt he'd be able to keep him honest or out muscle him, and could he take Fraizer hooks to the body all night and still move how he does, I don't think so. Usyk would probably win the first 5/6 rounds when Fraizer was a slow starter

Fraizer, KO any point after 9

 

Joe knew how to fight against slick and fast boxers, and he hit WAY harder than Usyk. I'm Usyk's fan but I pick Fraizer here with little doubts

 

I like Usyk, but I think Frazier wrecks him.

 

I think Frazier at his best, would give it everything he had, but Usyk is too much athlete and Usyk has too much experience at the highest level of amateur boxing. Usyk has fought the best, in the amateurs fighters don't get to pick their opponents. Usyk has won the big amateur tournaments, IMO, something that many top pros couldn't do. Usyk would be about the same size as Ali and Foreman and would dwarf Frazier as they did, plus he would be in better physical condition and he would be fighting out of a southpaw stance. If this fight could happen, I'd bet on Usyk and feel confident in my bet. And, if Usyk does lose to one of the top heavyweights in the next year or two, it won't change my mind, IMO the competition today is much better than in Frazier's time. Usyk is more skilled, bigger, stronger, more athletic, and he seems to have all of the desire and heart necessary to beat anyone.

This content is protected

 

Frazier batters Usyk.

 

Frazier smokes him in 7-8

 

Ok, but you do know that they're fighting in the professional division?

 

Usyk makes Frazier look like an amateur for a little but Frazier starts smoking and ends it mid rounds

 

Usyk is sound defensively but he still gets hit a fair bit. Frazier by KO in about 10 rounds.

 

While I disagree with your pick, I respect your insights/opinion and you as a poster.

I would just add that Frazier also has experience at the highest amateur level.

 

I really really like Usyk as a fighter and as a person. Total class in and out of the ring and I can't wait to see him compete against the big boys.

That said I don't like his odds against Frazier at all. A big, strong, aggressive power puncher is the kryptonite for an aggressive come forward fighter like Joe. Someone big and strong enough to control the range and halt Joe's effectiveness like Foreman obviously (not that I think any big strong guy could do a George to Joe. Foreman was a pretty unique animal)

Obviously Oleksander is a completely different kettle of fish. He's not particularly powerful at Cruiser, certainly not enough to bother Joe and it's doubtful he'd be the stronger man either. Usyk's movement and tremendous positioning will allow him to win some early rounds without causing Joe any serious problems. But Joe didn't get discouraged and getting hit certainly didn't bother him unduly either. Joe was also one of the best trackers of movers you would see and his debilitating body and head attack would eventually overcome Usyk's great skills. Ali was one of the best movers of all time and he couldn't keep Joe off him without resorting to excessive clinching and having to deep very, very deep. I'd take Joe by a 10 round TKO after battering and flooring Usyk over the last 5 rounds of the fight.

In saying that we're going to find out a lot more about Usyk's qualities very soon and I can see him doing a number on some of the slower footed giants to be honest. I watched his amateur fight with Joe Joyce and he made him look stupid. Joyce might be better now but Usyk is a very special talent and a threat to a lot of big men. Just not a guy like Joe who specialized in working over fair punching, skillful heavies.

 

I disagree, but you always create solid, in depth posts to support your opinion,that are great for reading and considering.

I think the pressure Frazier brings is bad stylistically. Frazier, at his peak (which was short) also had great defense, even if he was linear.
I could only see Usyk as a possibility in a 12 round bout, but even then I wouldn't pick him.

 

The caveat I would mention here is that the Ali Frazier beat resorted to the ring corners and laying on the ropes because, after all that time out of the ring he trusted neither his legs or his stamina.
Usyk is a much better mover than that Ali ,or the Mathis who was level on the referees scorecard when he was finally stopped in the 12 third.Also I can't remember if Frazier faced a southpaw as a pro, that might turn out to be significant.

Apart from Ali ,who beat him 2 out of 3 , which fast, slick boxers did Frazier face ? Washed up Machen who went into the closing moments of the last round? Ellis met him head on and tried to bomb him out . Anyone else?

 

I don't have any problem with anybody disagreeing with me and especially when it is done politely as all of you have done. I didn't expect many people on a "Classic Boxing" forum to agree with me about a guy with relatively few pro fights beating what most on this forum consider one of the best heavyweights ever. Joe Frazier at his best brought intensity that few have, but physically IMO, he is just over matched against Usyk. Usyk and most modern fighters do strength and explosiveness training and IMO the training has changed boxing, just like it has changed other sports.

It's been 50 years since the prime of Joe Frazier (69-71) and IMO, boxing, like all sports has changed. If you watch the video of Usyk training in my first post, you'll see a man who is probably as big as the biggest 70s heavyweights moving like a lightweight, able to walk on his hands across a basketball court and do 20 pull ups. None of these things would make him a great boxer but when his physicality is combined with his boxing skills it makes him a strong, fast, agile, well conditioned boxer. The 70s were a time when boxing training was a slow jog, some jump rope, a few sit ups and push ups, shadow boxing, sparring, and hitting the bags. Most of the people on this forum probably think that is an optimum boxing workout, it's been around for a long time and it's been used by a lot of fighters. I believe that strength and explosiveness training makes a much better athlete/fighter. To me, Usyk, Wilder, Joshua, etc. are good athletes who box.

This content is protected