How would Foreman fare against the following ATGs prime for prime?

lo

 

Accomplishments and head to head are tied for my biggest criterias. But I rate rocky very high h2h as well. His style would be nightmares for many of the big tired sluggers in modern eras. lennox and rocky both rate well h2h, but I think more fighters beat lennox h2h than they do rocky. lennox one punch knockout losses while champion to mccall and rahman will always leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Not quite. if fighter A at least fought someone the same size even though not near ability, at least we can have some indication how they would have fought stylistically and handled a fighter that size but with the skill and power of fighter B. so at least prove you can deal with someone of that size thats decent.

 

I like this post... That experienced and cagey version of Holyfield who handled Tyson whit such ease would have a good chance against a prime Foreman.

That being said, I'm a big Foreman fan and I consider him pretty invincible during his prime. I believe only Ali and Liston are sure shots to beat him. Another one I sometimes favor over him is Lennox Lewis.

Yeah, pure boxers with guile can do the trick to him.. but don't take that Jimmy Young fight for cash money. I would take an Ali, a Jack Johnson or maybe a Gene Tunney to avoid the damage and win a decision against him.

His defeat to Ali ruined him mentally. His confidence level wasn't the same, and the fear the opponent felt wasn't the same too. The Lyle fight dropped his self belief enven lower. He couldn't KO the boxer and fought life and death to KO a hard puncher who basically is a sitting duck.

Now listen to this: Foreman tried to outbox Jimmy Young fighting him on his way back to the title. That's just plain horrible...



Foreman KO 3 Dempsey (Dempsey would kill any lesser man but prime Foreman is way too strong. He would escape early damage but Foreman would finally catch him good. I favor Foreman 60-40)


Louis TKO 10 Foreman (Toughest one to predict IMO. Louis jaw can be tested and maybe destroyed. The question is: Would Foreman have time to touch him before Louis warms up and throw his punishing combos ? Both scenarios may happen. I favor Louis 55-45)


Foreman KO 4 Marciano (The size difference is so huge. Yes, Marciano fought low and would try to make himself harder to hit but Foreman is a monster and would push him around. If those blown-up light HW's and small HW's can hurt Marciano, Foreman can kill him. I favor Foreman 70-30)


Liston TKO 7 Foreman (Interesting one here. Both are huge, strong, possessed a good chin and a powerful punch. Liston is a pretty versatile "big puncher" and his jab played an important role in it. Look at the way he destroyed Cleveland Williams after takig his best punches. I bet Liston is the only man who can scare George Foreman. I favor Liston 60-40)


Foreman KO 7 Holmes (Classic fight here, the one that never happened. The puncher vs the boxer. I often rank Holmes as a better overall fighter but against Foreman, I think he could get too brave for his own good. I can also see a decision or even a stoppage in favor of Holmes.. but let's say Foreman win the first encounter. The odds are even)


Foreman KO 4 Tyson (The worst nightmare for a short swarmer\puncher ? A big, rangy power puncher like Foreman who can take his punches, for a certain period of time at least. Tyson would **** in his pants seeing Foreman pushing him backyards like a doll. He would eat some serious uppercuts and he couldn't handle it. I favor Foreman 65-35)


Foreman KO 6 Holyfield (Great matchup here. The well-rounded warrior who's able to box a bit, play dirty, use his respectable power and strenght to get some respect, and use good counter-punching skills to surprise his opponent with fast sharp combos when he's at the top of his game. Problem is: Holyfield is no Pernell Whitaker, Forman can hit him. The other problem is: Holyfield is not a big HW and his punch is above average but not "explosive". In an all-out battle, I guess Foreman wins again.


Lewis UD 12 Foreman (Lewis is a serious threat to any HW that ever lived because there's no real recipe to beat him. He's tall, rangy, powerful, he's got a long jab and booming right hand and he knows when and how to move. He beat every fighter he faced, that's a fact. On the other side, his chin can be cracked and Foreman maybe apt to do it. The equation is simple: Foreman's combination of strenght, power and chin is superior to Lewis, so I guess he can knock him out too. The first one goes to Lewis, by cautious, even boring UD. The odds are even)

 

What Forman you talking about.The one that if you yourself ran into him in a dark alley would run away like a coward.Dont talk stupid.The Forman of 1973-1974.Destroys all of them except Ali.If they had fought again 6 months later,it may have look bad for the greatest.Learn your boxing.Dont throw know weak chin ass Joe Louis at me,or no little midget Marciano.Thats a joke.Go out in the street in your neighborhood and grab a 6ft 3,220lbs, of all muscle and athletic and talented.And see what happens to you.You want be on this system any more.

 

Can't see Foreman beating Tyson much, he's a bit too slow.

 

Foreman TKO 2, if that long. Dempsey would simply be overwelmed by the size and punching power of Foreman.

Foreman KO 2. Wrong style for Louis. He would be helpless. By no meanes am i disrepecting any of these great legends and i consider Louis as the second greatest heavyweight after Ali, but he would be dethtroned brutally and fast at that. He is a come foward , plotting and slow footed and didn't have the proper movement to avoid the arsenal of big George.

Foreman KO 3. Marciano's chin and toughness would carry him for 3 rounds. Another bad style match up.

Foreman by late knockout. Liston had decent boxing skills, wonderful chin and the long left jab was beautiful, but he is smaller than Foreman and not as strong. He would be muscled into corners and hurt badly, although giving George hell in the proccess.

Holmes by unanimous decision. Simply too good of a technical boxer, too good of a chin, too good of footspeed and too good of a thinker. He is all wrong for George.

Foreman TKO 5. Tyson didn't have the stamina nor heart to keep up a consistant pace and fire back on someone that was still there after he landed his best punches. Style match up also favor's Foreman. Tyson would get a Frazier like beating.

Foreman late TKO. Evander could actually pull this out if he stuck to his game and didn't get brave, but we all know that it wouldn't happen.He would go to war from the first big right hand, hook or uppervut that Foreman would land. An old Foreman gave peak Evander fits, a peak Foreman stops Holyfield.

Lewis by late stoppage. He had the ability, foot work, hand speed and power to tire Foreman out and get him out there late. I can't see Foreman matching well against these movers.

 

I am quite surprised that so many pick louis by ko against george.
Both are very strong punchers,but foreman has a definite edge in chin....When did george struggle against a non mobile guy? And how many times was joe knocked down or hurt by lesser punchers than georgie grill man?

 

Fair comment,but wouldnt foreman land on louis,and then what happens?

 

KO's Dempsey early. See Dempsey-Firpo and Foreman-Frazier.

60/40 he stops Louis within 5. Bad matchup for the Bomber.

45/55 underdog against Marciano. He either stops him early or loses a wide UD/gets stopped late.

40/60 underdog against Liston. The jab is the key here, along with Liston's stamina, which is a bit more proven than Foreman's.

60/40 he KO's Holmes. He may be trailing late on the scorecards, but I don't see a way that Holmes can KO Foreman and eventually Foreman will land the right hand.

40/60 underdog against Tyson. I actually think Tyson's defence, speed, and pinpoint accuracy will have him knocking Foreman out inside of 4. This one would get very interesting if it goes past 8 or so.

60/40 favorite to beat Holyfield. We never saw the version of Holyfield needed to beat Foreman - a mixture of the younger version's athleticism and the larger, stronger body he had circa 95-96. The young one simply gets bombed out early, the older one gets beaten down systematically.

60/40 favorite to KO Lewis. Eventually he lands.

 

Lyle almost knocked him out.

 

Pretty shock some of you guys pick Foreman over ko in 9 or ten rounds over Marciano. I like Foreman early, BUT and that is a big BUT, if Rocky gets out of the first 6 or so rounds, and Foreman starts slowing down, I have to shift it into a Marciano win as he stops a gas out Foreman.

 

Yes, I completely agree.

 

Marciano wouldn't be in there rope-a-doping Foreman, but he would be murdering George to the body and making him work extremely hard for three minutes of every round. I don't think Foreman would be gasping in exhaustion in the later rounds against, say, Liston or Tunney, but if there was one guy who wore you down something terrible and turned the tables on you as the fight went on, it was Marciano. No, if Foreman doesn't get Rocky out in the first half of the fight, I would say the odds swing in the other direction. However, I think Foreman gets Rocky out in the first half of the fight.

 

Foreman vs 14 ATG heavyweights:
Sullivan, Jeffries, Johnson, Dempsey, Tunney, Louis, Marciano, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Holmes, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis.

I will consider these match-ups in four scenarios: A) '73-'74 Foreman vs. each fighter as they actually were in their prime i) in conditions of Foreman's time, ii) in conditions of Foreman's opponent's time; B) if Foreman and his opponent had come along and peaked at the same time, i) in Foreman's day, ii) in Foreman's opponents day.

Definitely favoring Foreman (George wins 63 to 67 times out of a hundred):
Joe Frazier, in any scenario. But if you gave me 5-2 against Joe, I'd take it. Peak Frazier (perhaps with a referee who frowns on the shove?) is a different proposition than Jamaica Frazier.
John L Sullivan vs George as they actually were at their peeks. John L is a phenom, so I don't want to go any lower. I'm just a bit doubtful that his gilded age training and competition has prepared him to meet Big George.

Moderatedly favoring Foreman (George wins 58 to 62 out of 100):
Jack Dempsey, Gene Tunney or Rocky Marciano vs Foreman, as they all actually were at their peaks.
Jim Jeffries and Jack Johnson vs, Foreman, as they actually were at their peaks, and fighting in the conditions of George's day.

Slightly favoring Foreman (George wins 54 to 57 out of 100):
Rocky Marciano vs. Foreman, if they both came along at the same time. I'd take George if he was favored 5-4, Rocky if he was a 4-3 underdog.
Jim Jeffries and Jack Johnson vs. Foreman, as they actually were at their peaks, fighting in the conditions of the older boxers times. And I might be selling the JJ's short, here.

Even (George wins 47 to 53 out of 100):
Mike Tyson, in any scenario.
Lennox Lewis vs Foreman, each coming along at the same time.

Slightly disdvantageous to Foreman (George wins 43-46 out of 100):
Sonny Liston, in any scenario.
Lennox Lewis vs Foreman, each as they actually were in their prime.
Gene Tunney and Evander Holyfield vs. Foreman, each fighter coming along at the same time.

Moderately disadvantageous to Foreman (George wins 38 to 42 out of 100):
Larry Holmes, in any senario.
Joe Louis or Evander Holyfield vs. George Foreman, each fighter as they actually were in at their peak.
Jack Dempsey vs Foreman, each fighter coming along at the same time.
Jim Jeffries or Jack Johnson vs. Foreman, each fighter coming along at the same time, fighting in the condition's of Foreman's time.

Definitely disadvantageous to Foreman (George wins 33 to 37 times out of 100):
John L Sullivan or Joe Louis vs. Foreman, each fighter coming along at the same time.
Jim Jeffries vs. Foreman, each fighter coming along at the same time, fighting in the conditions of Jeffries time.

Very Markedly disadvantageous to Foreman (George wins 32 times or less out of 100):
Muhammad Ali, in any scenario.
Jack Johnson vs. Foreman, each fighter coming along at the same time, in Johnson's day.

That's how I see them. I am fallible.