Ali vs Foreman 2 in 1977

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by steve1990, Apr 18, 2019.



Who wins

  1. Ali by decision

    38.8%
  2. Ali by KO

    10.2%
  3. Foreman by decision

    12.2%
  4. Foreman by KO

    38.8%
  1. steve1990

    steve1990 Active Member Full Member

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    Is this repeat or revenge?
     
  2. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    All Foreman.

    There is a reason the bout was never made. and the Ali camp sure did believe in rematches----Bugner/Patterson/Norton/etc.

    Ali's hands were so bad after that third Frazier bout. Hell, they were bad after the Foreman fight and we saw guys like Wepner going 15 rounds. Bugner decision. Lyle late rounds. 76 saw Norton and then Young 15 rounds. Evangelista 15 rounds. Shavers 15 rounds.

    Ali did not have the hands to keep Foreman off him. Nor the defensive abilities from a few years earlier. Clancy would have foreman fighting a smarter fight asnd Ali was not going to be anywhere near the same physical condition he was for their 1974 fight. But DKP couldn't put it together & neither could Perenchio. That left Arum and I don't think Bob wanted the fight and the prospect of losing his moneymaker-----hell he was giving us fans bouts with Alzado and Inoki.

    It was a bad time for the sport in that division.
     
  3. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I think this fight would've been a snooze fest, and I can't even pick a winner. Ali had virtually no power by 77 and Foreman was in one the worst mentalities a fighter could have.
     
  4. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    If Foreman uses his jab he could dominate the fight. Ali was a shadow of himself.
     
  5. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    By 1977 the substantially younger Foreman SHOULD have been able to beat Ali in a second fight. Muhammad was nowhere near the fighter that he was in Kinshasa '74. Three years is a lifetime for an ageing fighter. Yet.............Yet we always have to take into account Muhammad's mental dominance over Foreman.

    I envisage Ali exploitng Foreman's uncertainty and winning a lacklustre yet convincing decision.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  6. steve1990

    steve1990 Active Member Full Member

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    Once Foreman realizes Ali isn't throwing nearly as much in the first fight. Foreman goes the offensive and wears Ali out and stops him in the late rounds.
     
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2019
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  7. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Can't help seeing Jimmy Young-Foreman bout as a template for a rematch between George and Muhammad Ali. Ali and Young were n't quite the same but Foreman looked wary of gassing out during most of the rounds he boxed with Jimmy.
     
  8. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Actually, if anyone deserved the nod over Young, I thought
    Foreman did far more than Ali did.

    And that was the last time for a long long time we the fans were served a dish with a DKP fighter losing a close decision to a rival promoter.

    Plus, Like other times in his later title defending years, the Ali camp said they would fight the winner of the Foreman--Young match. That is the sole reason they fought. And where was that Jimmy Young rematch? He had to wait a long time before Ali was stripped of the title and we the fans got the Norton--Young bout.
     
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Hard to call. I think Foreman would have done better as Ali was slower by 1977, however Foreman didn't have good metal strength. Ali likely edges it, same as he did vs Shavers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2019
  10. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    So was Foreman
     
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  11. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Just how I read it.
     
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  12. zadfrak

    zadfrak Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well anyone around at the time, did not give Earnie a ton of respect. He had a punch and that was it. Most times when he stepped up he got stopped. But he was not perceived as anything more than a regional fighter that got his ko's against 3rd tier guys. when he stepped up to nationwide status, the results were not there aside from the hold Ellis' head and hit him with an uppercut fight. An old ellis.

    If he was a real lion in the waiting, the Ali camp does not take the fight. they were looking for soft touches. But there just weren't that many around for ali. Frazier was supposed to have been ruined by Foreman. He looked okay but not good against Bugner. Old quarry was always a terrific match for Joe. And nobody ever saw the Ellis fight in australia at the time, but were surprised it went so long. And Joe really did not look good at all when you finally saw the fight. That's who the Ali camp thought they were getting in Manilla--another soft defense over a name opponent. But Joe dug deep and surprised everyone---and very very few were picking him to be competitive let alone win.

    Back to Earnie--everyone knew he had major stamina problems. And very very few of the ko's were against top 10 guys--earnie was the guy getting stopped. But nobody thought shavers could go 12 against Ali, let alone 15 rounds. Going in it was considered to be a mismatch since the shaver's chances were to win via ko. Just look at what a youthful Holmes did with the guy a little bit later--a mismatch. That was supposed to be Ali result and pattern of the fight.

    But consider Ali was champ in 64. This was 13 years later as champ with a ton of miles on the odometer. A ton of rounds and a ton of sparring. They did not want a Norton 4 fight. Or a Foreman rematch or even a Young rematch. They wanted Evangelista's. Spinks. Shavers. And that's not talking about sometimes mentioned opponents like Schutte. Conteh.
     
  13. West of Hollywood

    West of Hollywood Active Member Full Member

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    Ali made the monumental effort against Foreman like Frazier did against him (first fight) and Duran did against Leonard in Montreal. It was not repeatable. But Ali's strength and toughness were off the charts and I think to an extent he had Foreman's number. I think a rematch would have gone to the judges - close to a pick-um fight.
     
  14. Jon1962

    Jon1962 Member Full Member

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    Going with Foreman by decision while Foreman was a mental wreck Ali had no little to no skills left.
     
  15. cross_trainer

    cross_trainer Liston was good, but no "Tire Iron" Jones Full Member

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    Foreman puts a battering on Ali, but can't put Ali away, and loses a robbery.