How could I disagree on that score? Jones would score a hands behind the back KO ala Glen Kelly without throwing a punch. Marciano would topple over from clumsily missing for 12 rounds (yes his endurance was also exaggerated).
Roy is the goat at 168 period nobody gets close. Lets just remember how good Roy really was and not the shell that dropped 20lbs to try and doing something super human.
I honestly don't think anybody would have beaten him when he was at SMW. Best chances would have been Nunn or Gerald. Nunn had the movement. Gerald had a punchers chance. On paper, you could say Calzaghe. But I honestly don't think he'd have had the confidence to have gone all out against him.
I think that's the one fight where he wouldn't have been as busy as what he normally was. Joe's biggest weakness is that he didn't believe in himself as much as he should have done. He had confidence issues. He would never have gone all out against Roy. It's totally unrealistic based on how is career played out.
No. The evidence against your theory is that he moved up. If he hadn't have seeked out the toughest opposition, then he'd have just spent years at SMW defending his IBF belt, in the way that Calzaghe defended his WBO belt.
Eubank had no interest in fighting the likes of Roy. He's admitted that on numerous occasions. Liles also blew a fight with Roy. Roy left SMW because he couldn't face the other champs.
Benn wanted Roy in 1995, but King was the stumbling block. It was probably for the best though, as Benn was never the same afterwards. He should have retired after the loss to Malinga. Eubank was never in line.
He does not have to go all out. He has the conditioning to throw 80 punches a round no problem. It's the other guy that doesn't let his hands go that much. 45 punches a round. and neither guy is anywhere near the top of the heap of accurate fighters. so the volume and activity of this particular opponent bothers Jones. Jones just loves those guys he can intimidate early. You know, all those 2nd tier grade B guys. they are content to play the feint game on the outside with Jones. Calzaghe will never play that game. Jones loves those breathers and then throw the flashy combos. Then, take a breather while feinting. Rinse, wash, repeat. Calzaghe was smart enough to not fall for that at all in their bout and never would have. And Jones was older when they fought but it wasn't like the McCallum Jones fight---where one guy is 40 and the other is 27. There was mileage on Calzaghe and those bad hands of his. And he still dominated the fight. it's a minor miracle the bout was not stopped because of the severity of the cut. That is a constant issue Jones would have with Calzaghe----he will get hit a lot more than the 5 or 7 punches a round he was asked to absorb from the Pazienza and thornton and all those title challengers. Cuts are a possibility when getting hit a lot. Roy was asked to absorb absolutely zero punishment at 168. Once he began the part of his career when he had to absorb, that part of his game was totally absent.
zadfrak, The issue here wouldn't have been the physical side of things. It would have been the psychological side of things. Joe would have been fighting a guy who was faster than himself. A guy who had genuine one punch knockout power in either hand. A guy who had more variation. A guy who was more accurate. A guy who was much harder to hit. Joe had superior fitness and a great chin. But he was mentally weak and was easy to hit with right hands. Roy intimidated Joe. Joe had Showtime's backing but wouldn't move up to LHW or fight in the U.S. when he was younger. He had great respect for Roy and he made sure that they never fought earlier. I watched the guys entire career. He was special Very awkward. What was missing was the drive and the confidence that guys like Benn and Collins had. Joe was obsessed with his zero. The reason for that was because he was unfortunately bullied as a kid. So when he turned pro, he vowed to never lose in the ring, as it meant never having to feel like a lesser person again. It really shaped his whole career. A loss would have broken him mentally. Which is exactly why he defended a lightly regarded WBO belt for 10 years. He had to literally starve himself to make SMW, and he even put himself through it even when he knew that Ottke wouldn't fight him in a unification fight. When you're killing yourself to make weight in order to fight guys like Mario Veit in your 30's, you know there's something amiss. Frank Warren said that Joe was the greatest fighter he ever worked with, but he didn't believe in himself enough. I'm telling you straight out, Joe would never have fought Roy when he was prime. Never. But if we play a game where we pretend he'd had to have fought him, then the chances are, it'd have been a battle of the feints, where Joe would have been extremely cautious. It would have been a very boring, lacklustre fight. It's an absolute fantasy to think that Joe would have gone in there and tried to overwhelm him with volume. Because again, he'd never have had the confidence to have done that facing a prime version of Roy. But if we fantasise where he would have done, then they'd have ended up in a shootout. And in that scenario, there'd only have been one winner. Joe dominated that fight because he was full of confidence. He knew that he had a gun shy, shop worn version of Roy stood in front of him. Have you read his 2007 autobiography? Here's an excerpt: "I have no interest anymore in fighting Roy Jones. And I have no interest in facing Tarver. Tarver has done nothing. He only beat Roy because he was shot, and Johnson did the same" So in his own words, he thought Roy had been shot for 4 years. He took the fight to massage his ego and to top up his pension fund. I'll give him credit for still being an elite fighter at 36, but I won't give him credit for fighting someone he'd never have gone near when he was anywhere near his prime. In my honest opinion, the fight should definitely have been stopped. I've seen fights stopped for cuts which have been much less severe. But I'll tell you something that most people don't know regarding the cut: Joe opened up scar tissue from a previous cut that Roy had sustained by playing basketball prior to the fight. He was elbowed in the eye and I believe that he had to have a few stitches put in it. Out of the two fighters, Joe would have been the one more likely to have marked up. He was much easier to hit than Roy.
Eubank got hit much more than Jones during his career and McCallum was far more impressive in his bout at middle v Watson.
Charles fought at middle if he had to come in at 168 to fight Roy he would probably have beaten him because P4P he was the better fighter, at light heavy Charles would have a much better chance to win and he was a far better heavyweight, Marciano would have destroyed Roy compared to how Charles fought v Rock. Calzaghe would have beaten Roy at 168. Ward would also have beaten him. Charles would have handled Griffin far better than Roy did in their 1st bout and so would Ward and Calzaghe.
