It was very one sided, Louis in his prime would have done better but you still have to favor Marciano on style alone? Unless you are of the opinion that Louis wins that fight? I am not saying he could not, but I would not favor Louis over Marciano at any stage.
That's an incredibly tough standard to hold someone to. He was pre peak Schmeling and it was the last lesson he ever needed regarding dedication and professionalism. He avenged and didn't lose again for more than 14 years. These 14 years included countless defenses of the world title against all comers. It's well accepted that Louis was not near as good as he had been after the war. He was heading toward 34 and had a careers worth of devastation behind him. Walcott may or may not have beaten him but even if he did it wouldn't overly matter. Walcott was an extremely good fighter and Louis faded. As it was Louis still pumped him in a rematch. He'd been retired and out of the ring for over two when he lost to Charles. The man was over the hill. The man was 36. By the time Rocky beat him he was a dinosaur. The man had been fighting for 17 years. Most heavyweights are sat on the seat of their pants at times but the great ones survive and win. Conn led but was ultimately knocked out. Applying such strict standards to others puts things in perspective. Larry Holmes - Dropped by Isaac, Shavers, Snipes and hurt by numerous others. Controversial decisions against Witherspoon and Williams and went life and death with Norton. Beaten by Michael Spinks at the same stage Louis was struggling with Walcott and at a stage prior to that of Louis when facing Charles let alone Marciano. "Crushed" by Tyson at a similar stage Joe was at for Charles. His loss to Holyfield was probably around the point Joe was at vs Rocky. Muhammad Ali - Dropped by Banks, Cooper and Frazier. Struggling with Young and co and losing to Leon Spinks at similar stages to the ones Louis struggled at. Beaten by Holmes and Berbick at similar stages Louis was losing to Charles and Marciano. Beaten by Frazier, Norton, Spinks, Holmes, Berbick etc, controversial decisions with Norton and others. We can do this with anyone. As one poster said it's all about context. Walcott, Charles and Marciano just don't matter much whatsoever. Just like Spinks, Tyson and co sure as hell don't define Holmes. You also won't see any decent poster throwing Spinks, Holmes and Berbick at Ali with any importance either, and if you do then run.
Joe Louis movement was good. He was an agile man who just chose to waste absolutely no energy on unnecessary movement. Ken Norton beat Ali, and Norton wasn't some flashy fleet-footed fighter. Even an actual plodder like George Chuvalo could get through to Ali, even had him in a corner along the ropes a couple of times. I feel I'm wasting my time here though, since you can't even recognize Joe Louis as having "good" defense.
It's a strange one, as good as Louis was they could all beat him. Surely the Klitschko brothers are just too big for him? I voted Ali, Holmes and Lewis to beat Louis. He should be good enough to beat Marciano and Dempsey in 2 classic fights. I think he stands a chance against Tyson but you just don't really know, Mike may blast him out of there. Same with Foreman.
What each person picked Picked 7 Greg Price Muhammad Ali George Foreman Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Wlad Klitschko Vitali Klitschko mrkoolkevin Muhammad Ali George Foreman Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Wlad Klitschko Vitali Klitschko ForemanJab Muhammad Ali George Foreman Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Wlad Klitschko Vitali Klitschko Pat M Muhammad Ali George Foreman Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Wlad Klitschko Vitali Klitschko JackSilver Muhammad Ali George Foreman Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Wlad Klitschko Vitali Klitschko h8me Muhammad Ali George Foreman Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Wlad Klitschko Vitali Klitschko GOAT Primo Carnera Muhammad Ali George Foreman Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Wlad Klitschko Vitali Klitschko Picked 6 Balder Jack Dempsey Rocky Marciano Muhammad Ali George Foreman Lennox Lewis Vitali Klitschko Entaowed Rocky Marciano Muhammad Ali Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Wlad Klitschko Vitali Klitschko Fergy Jack Dempsey Muhammad Ali George Foreman Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Picked 5 Seamus Muhammad Ali Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Wlad Klitschko Vitali Klitschko PeterD Jack Dempsey Muhammad Ali George Foreman Larry Holmes Mike Tyson CANNONBALL Muhammad Ali George Foreman Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis emallini Muhammad Ali George Foreman Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis JC40 Muhammad Ali Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Vitali Klitschko BlackCloud Jack Dempsey Muhammad Ali George Foreman Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Glass City Cobra Muhammad Ali George Foreman Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Vitali Klitschko Jamie1992 Muhammad Ali Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Wlad Klitschko Vitali Klitschko Clean & Crisp Muhammad Ali George Foreman Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis George Crowcroft Muhammad Ali George Foreman Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Toper Rocky Marciano George Foreman Mike Tyson Wlad Klitschko Vitali Klitschko Picked 4 ticar Muhammad Ali George Foreman Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis KuRuPT Muhammad Ali George Foreman Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis The Long Count Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Wlad Klitschko Vitali Klitschko Ra's Al-Ghul Rocky Marciano Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Vitali Klitschko cjh99 Muhammad Ali Larry Holmes Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Gazelle Punch Rocky Marciano Muhammad Ali George Foreman Mike Tyson ray fritz Jack Dempsey Muhammad Ali Mike Tyson Vitali Klitschko Picked 3 Quick Cash Muhammad Ali Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis 70sFan Muhammad Ali Larry Holmes Mike Tyson BobD99 Jack Dempsey Muhammad Ali Mike Tyson Contro Muhammad Ali Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis Reinhardt Muhammad Ali George Foreman Mike Tyson Manos de mierda Jack Dempsey Muhammad Ali Mike Tyson RightLeftCombo Muhammad Ali George Foreman Mike Tyson Picked 2 RockyJim Jack Dempsey Rocky Marciano salsanchezfan Muhammad Ali Mike Tyson JohnThomas1 Muhammad Ali Lennox Lewis mcvey Jack Dempsey Muhammad Ali The Morlocks Jack Dempsey Rocky Marciano Smokin Bert Muhammad Ali Mike Tyson Picked 1 PhillyPhan69 Rocky Marciano young griffo Muhammad Ali kolchak65 Larry Holmes reznick Muhammad Ali HOUDINI Muhammad Ali swagdelfadeel Muhammad Ali Sting like a bean Muhammad Ali Tom P Muhammad Ali BitPlayerVesti Muhammad Ali The Malibu Mauler Rocky Marciano Jack Catterall Muhammad Ali Picked 0 Unforgiven None janitor None The Undefeated Lachbuster None
I'm confused here, you're picturing Ali moving like he did for the Norton fights? That was the best version of Ali, nor the one we should be using. Am I wasting my time here if you think that is the Ali we're using? You mention Chuvalo but he is way more aggressive than Joe would be, which is why he was able to get there as he did. So I'll ask again, the best version of Ali, who's on his toes and firing jabs, so what about Louis' movement do you feel like is good in that type of matchup? You didn't like my term adequate, and feel his defense was good, and the fact that I think adequate means it might be a waste of time. I see, so it was technical phenoms who set traps for Louis that were unavoidable to stop, and it had nothing to do with his defense right? Interesting. Choose whatever term you see fit, but good is just below great. For me, you don't get dropped as many times as he did by technically average and overall average fighters with good defense. The Abe's, Buddy's the Jim's etc aren't doing it for me when it comes to really anything. So if you get dropped by them, I would hesitate to call someone that did, as having "good" defense. Crazy times I know
Not sure any heavyweight could have gotten out of the way of those lightning-fast, well-concealed Galento hooks, tbh.
Look another one of these threads where this old 60 year old boxing fans think some 6'1 190 pound Joe Louis could beat some modern sized and modern skilled fighters. Joe Louis couldn't handle 180 pound Max Schmeling punching power. But yeah he could handle 230 pound to 240 pound guys like Lennox Lewis, George Foreman, Riddick Bowe, Wladimir and Vitali Klitschko power? I know what you old casual fans will type. But he beat Buddy Baer, Abe Simon, Primo Canera and they were modern sized right? There guys weren't modern skilled and they fought the same era where the average heavyweight was 180 pounds. Joe Louis was almost knocked out by light punching 170 pound Billy Conn for crying out loud. So if one light punching 170 pound guy could hurt him wouldn't logic dictate that a harder punching 170 pounder would of stopped him? Any half way decent heavyweight from the 70s to this day would smoke glorified club fighter out in 1 round.
Wow I found a person in the classic forum who actually knows boxing. Maybe I should just put everybody else on ignore and just pay attention to what you type.
He had the tools to beat everyone on that list but also the weaknesses that could cause him to lose so it's difficult to confidently pick him against anyone on that list. But for what it's worth I believe he would have beaten Dempsey and the K-Bros. He's a slight favourite against Tyson and Holyfield if he was on the list. Holmes, Foreman, Lewis, Marciano and Ali are 50/50's.
Logic would dictate that if Louis' chin was as bad as you make out he would have been knocked out numerous times in his career and would have stood no chance against punchers like Schmeling, Baer and Walcott but boxing doesn't work like that. If Ali was floored and hurt by Cooper and Frazier surely then he would have been iced by Foreman ?? Holyfield floored and nearly stopped by Bert Cooper surely then he had no chance against Tyson, Lewis and Bowe ? Oh and speaking of Holyfield he was essentially the same size as Louis and he didn't do too badly against SHW's did he ?? Had two close fights with Bowe (winning one) and when he was past his prime had two close fights with Lennox Lewis who most consider to the be the best SHW in the division's history. In fairness you make some decent points about Louis but you're probably stating them in an overly aggressive and arrogant manner.
Don't bother replying CarlChilders is Black Hercules my old nemesis . Majority of members are here to enjoy a chat about boxing but this person is a exception.
