William was at his best years before that ,didn't even resemble the guy that fought Liston , .those are the actual facts . Lost his foot speed and punching combination. If you feel the need to.pretend otherwise and include the fight as the best Ali performance knowing that as most do have at .
Some great points, particularly Ali taking punches by choice. The Cooper and first Liston fight are perfect examples. Against Cooper Ali simply messed around as he didn’t rate Cooper and he looked bad. He was given virtually no chance against the monster Liston in his next fight for the title, yet he gave a remarkably disciplined performance knowing that if he messed up Liston would take him out. I always think that performance by Ali is very underrated, because the main debate is always around Liston and him quitting on his stool.
If you read my post I stated that Williams was past his best and had a bullet in him, I’m aware of when Williams’ prime was. My point was Williams was in the middle of a 10 fight winning streak and wasn’t suddenly wheeled out there after being shot in no fit state to fight. I don’t feel the need to pretend anything and where do I say this was Ali’s best performance?
we can all pick holes in any fighters make up. Whilst certainly not perfect, his plus points by far heavily outweigh his weaknesses. Id personally would fancy him against anyone prime for prime, weaknesses or not.
I think Ali's 70's comp in get overrated in general compared to his 60's comp. Patterson, well into his 30's, beat Bonavena, and arguably Ellis and Quarry as well. He could have wins over all of them without there probably being too many complaints. Even an old Cooper gave a young Bugner a very close fight. And those that call Williams of '66 a corpse should note that he beat one of Frazier's challengers seven years later. Personally I think Liston at his best have a good case for beating both Frazier and Foreman at their best. However, there is reason to believe he took Ali lightly first time around. But all in all there isn't that much in it when comparing the quality of his 60's to his 70's opp. As for Ali in the 60's, I agree with the OP except for the notion that Terrell landed a fair number of blows.
I didn't see Ernie Terrell cause Ali any problems whatsoever, so I don't know what people mean by saying that.
I saw him landing the jab and left hook. He wasn't good enough (or Ali was too good) to actual use this to cause problems.
I think a Holmes fight, from the perspective both from the 60s and 70s, would have been one of the most interesting. Holmes had the heavier jab and perhaps a better punch all around, while Ali...well, in the 60s he truly floated and stung, the quintessence of being not overrated imo. I don't think any heavyweight could have beaten him then (though FOTC Frazier springs to mind). One of the main problems was Holmes' susceptibility to the right, both in the 60s and early 70s Ali had one of the best sense of timings for the right hand I've ever seen. It was never a heavy punch, he just would come up with these insanely opportune times to throw it. See Foreman, Ellis, Lyle, Shavers (round 15)...Liston (if that was for real, no. 2...). Either way, I'm sure the 60s and early 70s Ali would have done one hell of a lot better than 1980. Maybe even stopped Larry.
its very easy to list a fighters shortcomings but when you do, its only fair to list all the other fighters shortcomings. I understand the OP is only making an observation, which is fair enough, but those same observations must be levelled at all other fighters and not just him
Yes. I after Ali I'm going to do one on Lewis (which I'm really looking forward to). It's not just Ali who I'm picking on
Dont get it twisted. Ali didnt just use his impeccable footwork to evade all night. He would take punches to give punches. When Ali wanted to not get hit, he was very hard to tag.
I agree that Ali was somewhat open to left jabs and hooks. And that some people have exaggerated his considerable elusiveness. But everyone gets hit a bit. That's boxing. Ali-Terell was terribly one-sided.
They would have problems with his speed and coordination. Ali would look as fast as a Featherweight against the Giants. He could dance, clown for 4 or 5 rounds and let them try to find him.
