Anthony Joshua - 2016 to 2019 - now that his reign has ended, where does he stand all time?

Name one ATG h/w who wasn't lineal.

 

This question really needs asking when he's retired.

 

We can rate this reign as it is now, and later ones if they happen at a later time. I don’t see a problem with it. Currently I’d say he had a good reign, not a great one. He beat the best of the old guard, unified twice, once against a faded but still very formidable ATG and against a very capable fighter in Parker. Above guys like Bruno and Berbick but far from the real all time greats. At this point I’d say he be a bit below but comparable to Floyd Patterson.

 

Lewis didn't quit

 

He was an above-average alphabet champ.

Well done, but needs to fight & defeat the Fury v Wilder rematch winner to be considered a real h/w champion of the world.

One who is worthy of discussion in threads like this.

Beware of imposters bearing alphabet bling.

 

This. In his Prime Haye was an animal. He went to war with a prime Chisora and took Chisora out. Too bad Haye wasted the rest of his prime not fighting.

 

I think it has been very impressive.

I have said this many times, but in the UK the HWs get matched tough and built up early which I think can shorten a career as I think the being the centre of attention for them can be very draining and cause upsets to happen.

He won a world title and unified another 2. He did the hard work, like Wladimir had done previously in winning the titles.

I have said in another thread how well Wilder has been managed in that he had many learning fights before going for a title but not draining fights where pressure was on. I think that has served well, as well as not being massively exposed in learning world title fights and being on the side waiting for the right time.

In every one of Joshuas world title fights, his opponents had had more fights than he has had. Think about that, yet he has been in the spot light more than almost all of the others on the big stage as a brand. That is what I think has been draining

 

Wouldn’t be a total surprise if he decides to retire now.

 

Joshua's "title reign" was mediocre, so far.

Charles Martin, IBF belt, perhaps the worst title holder ever, farcical, fraudulent title fight.
Dominic Breazeale, a plodding nobody. Not a real contender at all.
Eric Molina, a plodding nobody. Not a real contender at all.
Wladimir Klitschko, for vacant WBA belt too. Old man (41) coming off a bad loss and a lay-off. 21 years into his pro career.
A GOOD WIN.
Carlos Takam. Late substitute, 36 year old gatekeeper contender. Decent win, decent performance, premature stoppage.
Joseph Parker. WBO champion. Good fighter, 26 years old. Good win, good performance. Assisted by very bad referee and scoring distorted by biased judges.
Alexander Poverkin. Still a legit contender. Old man (39). Good win, great finish.
Andy Ruiz Jr. Good young fighter, 29 years old. Beat the crap out of AJ.

 

I don’t rate AJ that high.... to be honest I rate him below guys like Bruno and Sanders.

 

It's hard to rank him when I didn't consider him as the best heavyweight during his reign. I had Fury as #1, aj and wilder equal. His defences were against mediocre opponents. Wlad was well past his best, Martin won his title due to his opponent injuring his knee, Parker was a decent win to unify.

 

Excellent post. Threads like this, taking a rational and defensible macro view of boxing while most are caught in the histrionics of the moment ("AJ is a fraud" etc etc), are why I like you, even if we disagree a decent amount on some stuff.

I had him rated at about 25 on the HW ATG list prior to the Ruiz match. I had a thread noting where I positioned the Big 3, with Fury and AJ both being around 24-25 and Wilder about 4 or 5 below them, and saying it was possible any of them could crater, but more likely they would simply gain standing over the years.

But the Ruiz loss is crushing. It is really, really bad in terms of historical comp. I think this pushes AJ slightly outside of the top 30 for now, and his future trajectory is very much in doubt. I think he'll probably make the Hall of Fame someday, even if he furthered a tailspin. But as you said, he would have to wait some time to get in. He could still turn it around and become the dominant HW of his generation, although I think that is highly unlikely at this point. I have always preferred Fury and Wilder to AJ, and now its very hard to imagine AJ winding up having a better career than either one.

 

Yes, but you are being rational about it, looking closely at historical comparisons. Most posters on here are just caught up in the moment, and its fun to say AJ sucks, apparently.

 

Neither Wlad or Vitali were truly lineal, and both were clearly ATGs, top 15 at least imo. Lewis was the last lineal champ, and the belts were never fully unified again to create a new lineage after he retired.

 

Joshua's reign was always mediocre.
But, yeah, he's probably a notch above Haye and Bruno, they were pretty dire.