Zale vs. Lamotta

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by KuRuPT, Jun 6, 2019.



  1. louis54

    louis54 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Zale should be slightly favored
     
  2. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Jake was Zales number one contender. Not Cerdan and not Graziano. In fact Jake was rated higher than both even when he was the top contender when each got title shots. Graziano was mob connected and they pushed him through to an undeserved title shot. He was the Arturo Gatti of his day. Popular yes but who did he ever beat to earn a title shot? In fact what top ten middleweight did he ever beat? The fact that he was being over hyped by the New York press cronies was lost on no one. Some have argued that Zale was justified in taking on Graziano ahead of LaMotta because of the money. Fair enough but LaMotta was no slouch at the box office. He was popular in New York and the midwest where Zale was from. He would have drawn a huge gate in a championship with Zale as well, particularly after the title had been frozen during the war. So its not like the risk/reward factor made the fight not worth it. And besides, Zale fought a ton of setups after the war for peanuts compared to what he would have made fighting LaMotta, so that excuse doesnt ring true. Neither does the idea that it was the mob freezing LaMotta out and not Zale. Sam Pian and Art Winch who handled Zale werent controlled by the mob. They made their own decisions. The main reason they chose Graziano, beyond the money factor was that he was beatable. Period. The only reason Zale struggled with him as much as he did was because he was pretty far gone after the war.

    In regards to his toughness, you can call it heart, toughness, whatever. I still dont see where Jake takes a back seat to Zale in terms of toughness. My point stands. If you want to say he was tough and then move the goal post when pointed out how often he got his ass kicked or was hurt or knocked down and say "Well, I mean he had heart and never say die spirit" thats fine but thats not going to get him over the hump against LaMotta because that never say die spirit usually came into play with a come from behind knockout or a knockdown that changed the course of the fight. Thats not happening with LaMotta. Using the Cerdan fight to illustrate his toughness is laughable. He lost that fight as one sided as it gets, took a hellacious beating, collapsed, had to be carried to his corner and couldnt get off his stool the next round. Yeah, he went out on his shield but whats that supposed to mean? And Id love to have seen Zale dipping down to Jakes squat little tree trunk body and opening himself up like that. It would have been suicide. No, I dont see it. Zale was fortunate he had a foil like Graziano after the war otherwise he would have lost to Jake, Burley, or Holman Williams convincingly.
     
  3. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    Once again spot on !<A good fight which turns in to a mini war .
     
    roughdiamond likes this.
  4. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Ill take Zale in a brutal fight
     
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  5. InMemoryofJakeLamotta

    InMemoryofJakeLamotta I have defeated the great Seamus Full Member

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    To me, it's a pick em but I'll lean towards Zale
     
    thistle1 likes this.
  6. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

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    :beer-toast1:
     
    thistle1 likes this.
  7. thistle1

    thistle1 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    that's how I see it, though not quite as an equal 'pick em' fight... most people would lean toward Zale and rather assuredly, though Jake (like many others might pull off a surprise), but the betting money would be on Zale.

    Conn and Villemain are good measures for these two fighters, which can't be forgotten.
     
  8. Chuck1052

    Chuck1052 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I would think that Tony Zale's and Rocky Graziano's brain trusts would have also tried to keep their charges from making a world middleweight title defense while fighting Sugar Ray Robinson, especially considering the fact that Robinson did quite well while fighting Jake LaMotta.

    - Chuck Johnston
     
  9. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I love Tony Zale but LaMotta was a better fighter_ neither man would hurt the other enough to get the stop but Jake wins a UD or a stoppage like Cerdan in a war of attrition