William Stevens Vs George Meggs, fix job or legitimate?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by BitPlayerVesti, Jun 14, 2019.



  1. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    I've mentioned this a few times, but I'd really like to see what other people think on this, and while I was looking into the Corbett McCoy stuff, I thought I'd do a thread on this.

    Their fight is normally told as the story of a fix. As best as I can tell it come from Modern Manhood by Henry Lemoine, which says on the matter
    Stevens now was deemed the Alexander of England. Like Philip's son, he sat down and wept, because he could find no more heroes to conquer. This modern Vulcan, working at his forge, one day suffered his iron to cool on the anvil, whilst with his hammer susended, he listened to the news of a Taylor, who read the Gazettee, in his shop.--- "George Meggs, a baker of Bristol, hearing of the fame of William Stevens, thus offers to fight him for fifty pounds, to the winner, and half the stage money, on any day when he shall say Done Dam'me.
    George Meggs.”

    At length the Nailor's challenger came to town, and the day of the decision being fixed, the expectation of the public rose so high, that the Tennis-Court; where the battle was fought, was so crouded; that many gave a guinea for entrance, just as the combattants were stripping to begin.

    As one battle is like another in most respects, a particular detail of the shifting scene may be omitted in this place. Suffice it to observe, the knowing ones were completely taken in. Stevens was knocked down so often, that he fell at last like the great Goliah of Gath, to rise no more on that stage.

    Meggs had been tutored and prepared for the battle, by Slack, who then kept a butcher's shop, in Chandos-street; but he would not have beaten Stevens yet, had he not given him forty guineas for that purpose. Stephens had a curious knack of keeping off the blows of his antagonist, and seldom hit so many as they did, besides he practiced a blow which seems to be at present, not known, or forgot, and that was thus; he struck the right arm of his adversary with his left fist, and with his right he struck them on the left temple, at the same time tripping them of their center with his foot, they fell with an increased force from the ſhock they received at their head. This was the blow decided the conquest over Dart the Dyer, as before observed, when he beat him almost without a blow.

    Some years after this, the Nailor was taken out of Jail to fight the, Coach spring-maker, whose name is not now remembered; but he suffered himself to be beaten shamefully.

    So bare-faced a Cross, disgusted the public, and prevented the encouragement of Boxing so much, that from this time, stage fighting, was consigned to contemptible neglect.

    An acquaintance ſoon after meeting Stevens, and wondering at the manoeuvre which occasioned his defeat, was answered in nearly the following words ; “The day that I fought Jack Slack, I got ninety guineas ; but I got forty more than I could have got otherwise, by letting Meggs beat me, and Dam’me, I'm the same man still.”
    Pancratia uses the "quote" of Stevens above, though it actually says "answered in nearly the following words", it's unlikely they'd both happen to use the same paraphrase, so I think that's pretty good evidence it took it from Lemoine, and also uses the same phrasing before and after where that quote is. e.g. "So bare-faced a CROSS disgusted the amateurs"

    Pugilistica explicitly sites Pancratia.

    Boxiana actually gives a different quote that is
    the Nailer had the impudence to acknowledge soon after, that he was tipped handsomely to lose the battle, and that he had gained more by so doing— exclaiming, at the same time, " that he was as good a man as ever !"​
    However it also included the Alexander refererence
    His conquests, at one time, it is said, were so numerous, that he sat down, like the great Alexander, weeping that he had no more heroes to overcome !
    Pancratia, and Boxiana both also call Jacob Taplin a Coal Heaver, like Modern Manhood did, while the news reports I've seen call him a Carman.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2019
  2. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Firstly the reports of the contest which I have found

    Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette - Thursday 26 February 1761
    We hear that the Battle between Maggs and the Nailer, intended to have been fought in London on Monday last, is deffered 'till next Monday, at the declare of several Noblemen.

    Derby Mercury - March 6th February 1761
    London March 2nd

    This Day at Noon, the Match between Maggs and the Nailor was fought at the Tennis Court in James Street, near the Hay Market. The Odds at first were greatly for the Nailor, but it was decided in favour of the former, who obtained the Victory over his Antagonist.

    Public Ledger - March 3, 1761
    Yesterday the great boxing match, which has beemn so long in agitation, and upon which so many considerable sums were depending, between Meggs, a collier, from Bristol, and the famour Nailor, sho some time since beat Slack, was decided at the Tennis-court, in James-street, in the Hey-Market; Smallwood was second to Meggs, and Faulkner to the Nailor; the knowing ones were very much take in; for before they set to, the betts were three to one in favour of the Nailot, and two to one was laid the battle did not last five minutes. At the first onset, the Nailor missing his blow, Meggs hit him on the side of his head and knocked him down, after which nothing material happened but hugging and dodgin, with which they prolonged the battle about seventeen minutes, when the Nailor gave out; the prices of the feats were half guineas ad crowns, and 'tis thought that twice the number of people were turned away for want of room, than those who saw the battle.

    Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette - Thursday 05 March 1761
    Monday last the Trial of Skill between George Maggs, of Pensford in this County, and Stephens the Nailer, was decided at the Tennis-Court in St. James-Street, near the Hay-Market, London. There were assembled the greatest Concourse of Nobility, Gentry, &c/ ever known on the like Occation. The Champions mounted the Stage between Twelve and One. At first setting to, Maggs struck the Nailer down; afterwards the Nailer knocked him down twice; and for ten Minutes he seemed to have the Advantage: However, the heroic Maggs, by his great Skill, uncommon Strength, unequal'd Courage, and matchless Agility, soon changed the Scene; struck the Nailer down six Times successively; and finally stript him of all Laurels he had acquired by his many former Victories.--- Smallwood was Second to Maggs, and Faulkner to Stephens.---
    According to the most exact Accounts, the Battle lasted just seventeen Minutes and a half.
    A certain Royal Personage was present, and won large Sums. 'Tis said upward of 50,000l. depended on the Issue of this Battle: One Nobleman lost above 2000l.
    We hear that Maggs and the Nailer were weighed a few Days before they fought; and that there were only five Pounds Difference, which was in Maggs favour.

    Oxford Journal - Saturday 07 March 1761
    Monday the tryal of Skill between the Nailor (who so easily beat Slack some Time since) and Maggs from Bristol, was dtermined at the Tennis-Court in James-street, by the Hay-market, before several People of Distinction, and a great Number of Spectators ; when Maggs in about eight-teen Minutes and a half, tore the Laurels from the Brow of the most powerful Nailor, and gained to himself, the Honour of being the Champion amoungst the Broughtonians.

    'Tis said several Knowing Ones were out of the Secret

    Oxford Journal - Saturday 14 March 1761
    On Saturday last Maggs, the Conqueror at the last bruising Match, set out on his Return Home with his ill earned Laurels, and a considerabl Sum of Money that he had gained from foolish Encouragers of Riot and Mischief.
     
  3. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    On Stevens fighting Turner (The coach sping maker), here is all I have thus far found

    Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette - Thursday 10 June 1762
    The Battle which was to have been fought Yesterday between the noted Stephens The Nail, and Turner the Coach-Spring Maker, at the Repository on Saffron-Hill, for 100l. each was put a Stop by the Activity of Mr Justice Welch, being contrary to a late Act which suppressed these Meetings, as only Nurserier for Thieves, &c. The Odds were greatly in Favour of the Coach Spring Maker against the Nailer

    London Lloyd Evening Post April 25, 1763
    The great boxing match, which has been some time depending between the famous Will Stephens the Nailor, and the Coach Sping-Maker, for a considerable sum of money, is to be determined at the next New-market meeting in May. Great bets are depending upon this battle, they being reckoned the best boxers in the kingdom.

    I have however found reports on his fight with Darts mentioned.

    Bath Chronicle and Weekly Gazette - Thursday 06 August 1767
    A boxing match for several considerable sums of money, is to be fought one day this week, between Stevens the nailer and Dart the dyer, at Colnbrook, if not prevented by the magistrates.

    Oxford Journal - Saturday 22 August 1767
    Yesterday a Battle was fought between Stephens the Nailor and Dart the Dyer, in a Booth which was erected for that purpose in four Hours, at a Plac called Pyle, near Colnbrook, for a considerable Sum of Money : Notwithstanding the Nailor was knocked down the first Blow, the Dyer gaver out in a few Minutes, and so the Hum ended.

    Leeds Intelligencer - Tuesday 25 August 1767
    Yesterday a severe battle was fought at Colnbrook, between the noted Dyer and the Naylor, on which upwards of 1000l. were depending. The odds, at first, were six to one in favour of the Dyer; but, after a contest of fifteen minutes, the Naylor came off conqueror, by which the knowing-ones were greatly taken in.
     
  4. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Of all the mentions of Meggs or the Stevens in later papers, I've yet to find any that suggest their fight was a fix either e.g.

    Oxford Journal - Saturday 24 June 1769
    On Monday last a long depending Battle was fought at the Circular Stables in this City, between the noted William Stevens, the Nailor, and George Milsom, a Collier, of Kingswood, for Fifty Pounds a Side, where the Knowing Ones were taken in. I

    Derby Mercury - Friday 21 June 1776
    About six Weeks ago a Bet was made for a Battle for 50 Guineas a Side, between Cochran, the noted Irish Bruiser, and Seller, a Sawyer, from the West of England. The Combatants tossed up which should chuse the Place of fighting, and Seller winning, chose Staines in Middlesex, where he had a Number of Acquaintance. Leonard was chosen as Second to Cochran, and the famous Maggs was sent for from Bristol to second Celler. . . .

    Oxford Journal - Saturday 05 September 1778
    Yesterday a great Boxing-Match was fought on a Stage erected for that Purpose on Hounslow-Heath, between the celebrated Stevens, a Nailor, and Sellers, the Sawyer; when after two or three Rounds, Victory decleared in Favour of the latter. . . .

    Monthly Mirror May 1, 1803
    George Maggs, whose fame rang through this country nearly fifty years ago as the champion of England, when he beat the noted Stephens, the nailor, in London, is now living in this city, a hale, hearty, respectable old man; a handsome and venerable pile of stately ruins.

    I also think that he lost to Millsom, and that the odd against Meggs wereonly 3 to 1 and 2 to 1, go against the narritive that there was as big a disparity in ability as normally suggested. In general the newspapers seem to hold Meggs in much better regard than generally suggested. Constrast this with the comments on the Darts Corcoran fight

    Oxford Journal - Saturday 30 May 1772
    Yesterday afternoon a great bruising match was fought on Epsom Downs, between the famous Darts the Dyer, and one Cotrell. The odds, before the engagement began, were ten to one on the former, but after two minutes conflict, Darts was beat,, to the great disappointment of the Knowing Ones, several of whom were pretty deeply taken in.

    Public Advertiser - June 5, 1772
    It is thought that the Battle between Darts, the Dyer, and ****ering, the Irishman, fought a few days since at Epsom, was all a Sham, for the former, said to be dying of his Bruises, on Monday last fought a Battle of 15 Minutes near St. Geroge's Fields with a more powerful Man than ****ering for a considerable Sum, and was victorious, which ought to be a Cauton how People lay their Money on such Fellows.

    Stamford Mercury - Thursday 18 June 1772
    It is said that a certain sporting Captain, who so warmly espoused the late boxing match at Epsom, between the Hibernian Publican and Darts the Dyer, cleared no less than 1500l. by the battle, the conquerred party 500l. by bye bets.

    Southampton Hampshire Chronicle - August 22, 1774
    This morning died in St. George’s Fields, the noted bruised named Darts. He seemed to be uneasy in mind some days before he died, on account of his having played booty in a battle that he fought some time ago, by which several persons were taken in.



    Now it is of course people that Henry Lemoine was simply better informed than the newspaper writers of the time, however at the very least I think there is some doubt here, and I think we should be cautious about writing the history of this period of the word of one man.
     
  5. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Here's also Jacob Taplin

    Derby Mercury - 15-22 February 1760 (page 2)
    Tuesday was fought in the Fields, near Mary-le-Bon, a most severe Battle, between Stephens, a famous Boxer, by Trade a Nailer, and one Taplin, a Carman, in whose Favour the Odds ran Three to One; the Fight was managed with great Skill and Dexterity on both Sides for about 12 Minutes, when Victory at length declared for the Nailer, to the no small Mortification of the knowing ones. Taplin had two of his Ribs broke, and received so many Bruises that it is though he can not recover. It is computed not less than 10,000 Persons were present.

    Derby Mercury 15-22 February 1760 (page 2)
    Taplin the Carman, who fought the desperate Battle with the Naylor the other Day, in Marybone Fields, is since dead of his Bruises.

    Public Advertiser June 27, 1760
    We hear a large Sum of Money is laid on a great Boxing-Match, which is to be determined on Monday se'nnight, between Swaffham, a Butcher, and Tapley, a Carman, who fought the fanous Nailor some Time ago in Marybone Fields.