When Jeffries beat the best fighters in the world you say they were too small. When he beat the best fighters in the world over 200 lbs you say they were too bad. I'm sure that had Jeffries beaten Denver Ed Martin, you'd say he was bad. I'm almost sure that had he beaten Jack Johnson and Sam McVea, you'd say they were novices.
No I think Jeffries hit appreciably harder than Braddock ,but I wouldn't classify him as a huge puncher,certainly not on the level of a Fitzsimmons Buskirk was nothing,Jackson was a wreck and 195lbs, Kennedy was way out of shape, and only sparring partner level,Ruhlin wasn't ko''d he was retired between the 5th and 6th rds ,and he was 198lbs for that fight.Munroe was a joke, a hyped up part timer.That fight was about as competitive as the Fury v Schwartz farce. The only other guys around 190lbs that Jeffries fought were Goddard said to be194lbs who was 40 years old, "Goddard's seconds threw up the sponge at the close of the third round, but upon the announcement by Referee John Brink that no money would be paid unless the fight proceeded, Goddard came up in the fourth round and was severely punished. The referee stopped the fight in the middle of the round and gave the decision to Jeffries." (Wire in San Francisco Call) Jeffries appeared to be at least twenty pounds heavier than Goddard. And Everett billed as 190lbs but said to look 50lbs lighter than Jeffries. "Everett was down twice in the 2nd round, and one more time in the 3rd when the referee stopped the fight. "Their meeting proved to be a veritable farce, for Everett was completely outclassed by his burly opponent. He never had a chance to strike an effective blow and only Jeffries' good nature saved him from being thoroughly whipped before Referee Ward stopped the proceedings by awarding the fight to Jeffries." (Cripple Creek Morning Times) According to the Los Angeles Herald "...there appeared to be fully 50 pounds difference between them when stripped for the fray".
Well lets see if that statement is true or false? Jeffries 219lbs v Choynski167lbs = weight advantage 52lbs Jeffries 218lbs v Corbett 1. 183lbs =weight advantage27lbs Jeffries 210lbs v Corbett 2. 188lbs=weight advantage 22lbs Jeffries 220lbs v Griffin 180lbs= weight advantage 40lbs Jeffries 212lbs v Armstrong 187lbs =weight advantage25lbs Jeffries 212lbs v Ruhlin 2 198lbs= weight advantage 14lbs Jeffries 206lbs v Fitzsimmmons1.167lbs=weight advantage47lbs Jeffries 219lbs v Fitzsimmons 2. 172lbs =weight advantage 37lbs Jeffries 205lbs v Sharkey1.183lbs = weight advantage 23lbs Jeffries Jeffries was challenged by all three he declined their challenges. Johnson defends world 'colored' heavyweight title. "..Manager McCarey of the Century Athletic Club announced that he would offer a $15,000 guarantee for a match between Jeffries and Johnson .
Maybe if Johnson had won thr fight against Hart, he would have got a chance against Jeffries. Maybe not but that's not my point. Jeffries could fight against Hart and that would be legit fight, yet some of you would say that Hart was too small and too mediocre.
Jeffries stated two days before the Johnson v Hart fight that in the event of Johnson winning,[which he expected to happen,] he would not defend his title against him. "When there are no more white challengers to fight I shall retire,I will not take a chance in losing my title to a Negro". "If Hart should win and there is sufficient demand for it, I stand ready to defend my title against him." Hart was 190/198lbs significantly bigger than a lot ot Jeffries opponents. I wouldn't have given Hart that much of a chance with Jeffries and the public perception was he wasnt in Jeff's class.
Braddock was as game as anyone and a tough guy but unless Jeffries was a total myth he would bust Braddock up and stop him under ten ..
Okay, I think this is the last time I'll reply back to you in this thread. Jeffries may or may not have hit harder than Braddock you say? Good luck there. Many of the early records of fighters from 1890-1910 are incomplete, and Jeffries in his biggest fights gave up a good amount of experience. Jeffries beat Ruhlin faster than Fitz did, and who else stopped Munroe but Jeffries? My point that Jeffries stopped his guys faster than many of their opponents did for the most part doesn't seem to matter to you. I could show you Jackson looking good in training and sparring leading up to the fight, but that wouldn't mean much. Jackson did just fine in round one then quickly got hurt from a power punch in round two and was finished by round three. Braddock was small, not fast and not strong for a heavyweight. His reach is most common listed at 75". Jeffries has him in every measurement of the tale of the tape outside of maybe one. Instead of questioning hall of fame fighters and contenders Jeffries fought, why not examine the 24 people who best Braddock, and the 4 who drew with them??? If you bothered you'd see 10X the suspect level for Braddock. Not one of the estimated 50 historians, or boxing reporters I have archived view Braddock as better than Jeffries, Your opinion here is unique and uneven. You seem to get it with the more modern fighters.
Since you seem to harp on size and weight what about Johnson, Dempsey and Louis being floored and stopped by men who were less than 200 pounds?. Do the same standards apply? I'm curious as to your thoughts on this reply.
You are so absolutely full of sh*t here that none of your arguments can be taken seriously. Do you really want me to quote all the contemporary accounts of Jackson's shape after not having fought for SIX year and become a tubercular alcoholic. This is not to blame Jeffries. He himself was still a newbie. Jackson was a suddenly available and vulnerable name. But let's not make that into a grand victory. It was a pathetic affair, the like that is so common in the sport... Ali-Berbick, Louis-Marciano.... I have the tale of the tape in my collection. 6 foor 3. 78" reach. 44" chest.
These historians/reporters you talk about… had they actually seen both Jeffries and Braddock in action?
Good post. I agree with this, in that the shorter the fight the better it is for Braddock, who was a pretty good boxer. In the long haul Jeffries' physicality wrecks Braddock. Over say, 8, I'd put money on Braddock, I think to be ahead 5-3 or 6-2.
I don't harp on anything, but I'll always correct wrong assertions wouldn't you? Jeffries had an average of 31 pounds weight advantage over his opponents, this is undeniable.That isn't a criticism of him ,he can hardly be blamed for being bigger than his contemporary opposition ,but it is a fact. You're curious as to my thoughts? Well here they are. Johnson was ko'd by Choynski when he was pre prime he was also ,according to two biographies scaling around 170lbs similar to Choynski in fact. A young Jeffries drew with Choynski it was an impressive showing ,but given the huge weight advantage he had going into that fight ,its surprising he couldn't stop Joe who did not have a rep for durability ,several reporters thought Choynski worthy of the draw. Johnson was floored by 170lbs Ketchel, it may or may not have been a genuine KD,he was not stopped by him and immediately he arose he knocked Ketchel spark out for several minutes. Dempsey was floored when pre prime and stopped by Flynn again this may or may not have been a genuine ko.Dempsey fought and beat a slew of bigger men Jeffries did not. No heavyweight has such an impressive list of ko's over huge men as Louis.he was only stopped twice, both times by big hitters once when pre prime and once when well past it.Marciano would very likely have ko'd a Jeffries in the same stage of deterioration Louis was in that night. I hope this makes my position clear?
Jeffries had more fights than Corbett and only a couple less than Ruhlin. Munroe was a hyped dub,Jackson was a physical wreck who hadn't fought for years.Stopping those two would not be beyond a third rater. Fitzsimmons victory over Ruhlin was much more impressive than Jeffries one .Christ Man he nearly killed him!
