I have a hard time believing that Munroe was complete nobody when he drew with Griffin in his "debut" and he beat Maher and Sharkey. I'm almost certain that he had more than 15 fights. Was he hype job? Maybe but he was decent fighter who had some decent wins. For what it's worth, Johnson couldn't destroy him in the way Jeffries did.
Okay, as I did last time,I'll answer your post with facts. Munroe was a hype job 3rd rater. Here is his record Alf Limerick 0-0-0. W Jack Sullivan 0-0-0. D C Stokes 0-0-0 .W Jack Shaughnessy 0-0-0 .W Leo Pardello 0-0-0 . W Tom Murphy 0-0-0 .W Jack Sullivan 0-0-0. D Alf Allen3-7-4. W Mike Shallow3-1-1 . D Martin Mulverhy1-5-1. W Ike Hayes 23-15-4W Tom Sharkey. 2 years retired and completely washed up .W Peter Maher.Alcoholic and had lost 5 of his last 6 fights,3 by ko beating only the human punch bag Joe Grim in the other fight. Munroe has an11 - 2- 4 record , of his 9 wins, 4 were against debutees and only 3 had winning records out of the others, 2 of whom were washed up. Of Munroe's 8 kos ,4 were against men having their 1st fight. Hank Griffin W. no details available JimJeffries L ko Jack Johnson L .lost every round and was toyed with by Johnson,reporters remarked that Munroe did not even know how to punch correctly. I've loads of ringside reports of the Johnson v Munroe fight and they all agree that after flooring Munroe in the 2nd round Johnson did not exert himself or try to ko the miner, who fought only to survive the 6rds.
He was apparently champion of the Olympic club a while before he fought Jeffries. There's a biography on him, though I've not read ot, he apparently lived an interesting life beyond boxing.
You know boxrec not having any previous bouts doesn't make it their debut. Limerick had KOed Philadelphia Jack O'Brien im an exhibition, which used to be listed on boxrec. Though he didn't have any previous fights, anyway
You find the fights and I'll be happy to include them.Fair enough? My point is Munroe was a third rater and he was described as not being good enough to be a second rater in the Philadelphia Inquirer after the Johnson fight. "The fact that Munroe had once lasted 4rds with Jeffries and had outpointed Sharkey caused some to believe that he had at least a look in with the world's best. However the Johnson bout exploded that thinking.At no point in the six rounds did Munroe show anything to justify the belief that he was anything more than an ordinary husky fighter endowed by nature with a large physique,but lacking the essentials that would make him even a second rater. Munroe was entirely too bulky and his feet were in his way".
Corbett if you could the news wins was 59-0-3 props to meeting Jackson. Munroe was a big man, at 215 pounds and undefeated. Jeffries destroyed him, Fitz was a KO artists, yet Ruhlin lasted one round less vs Jeffries. Jackson according tot he press in his training had regained his form and had a lively round one. While he was older, ht didn't;t gas out, Jeffries simply caught him with a hook to the jaw then he went south. As for Jeffries hitting power, here is what the hsitorians says many of whom saw him live. Testimonies to Jeffries' strength and hitting power are numerous. Odd (1974 p 18) said that Jeffries was the strongest of the heavyweight champions in both hitting power and build. Carpenter (1975 p 34) called Jeffries a bull of a man out of the California iron foundries who traded on strength. It has been written that no man was the same after being pounded by Jeffries' fists. With "TNT" in each hand, he delivered heavy, relentless blows that imparted their damage to the foe. He cracked two of Bob Fitzsimmons' ribs in one of their bouts. He battered Tom Sharkey, breaking his nose and two ribs. Diamond (1954 p 62) said Sharkey was hospitalized for three days and suffered three broken ribs. He bashed in Jim Corbett's right side in their second match. He sent Joe Goddard to the hospital with a severe beating and dealt Pete Everett head and back injuries that kept him bed-ridden for days. Yet, Jeffries, himself, said he never hit a man with all his strength for fear of killing him. Grombach (1977 p 50) said Jeffries was a natural puncher who was so big and powerful that he could deliver damaging blows from an almost extended left-hand that did not have to travel more than a few inches. Keith (1969 p 127) asserted, "Jeffries probably owned the deadliest left hook the prize ring has ever known." Tex Rickard, famed fight promoter, said "There's no style to him, but he's the hardest hitter I ever saw. And that includes Dempsey. Sports columnist Ned Brown, said, "He was one of the most powerfully built, could take a solid punch, and had acquired a fair amount of boxing skill by the time he tangled with Jim Corbett in their second match. Jeff had as deadly wallop as any I've ever seen" (see McCallum 1975 p 12). Odd (1976 p 163) quoted Fitzsimmons describing Jeffries in battle, "The first time he really hit me in the body, I thought his fist had gone right through me. His crouching stance and the way he tossed that long left. Every time I hit him, he punched back even harder." Cooper (1978 p 107) remarked, "James J. Jeffries was one of the ring's indestructibles" and asserted, "Apart from having a punch that might have knocked a horse out, Jeffries' greatest asset was sheer patience." The easy conclusion is he hit several notches above Braddock.
Munroe was fat and out of shape vs Johnson. Johsnon could not hurt him, and it wasn't his style to mix it unless the other guy was hurt or too small. Put it to you this way Jeffries quickly KO'd Munroe in shape. Johnson took a more shop worn out of shape version the distance. Munroe was likely a top ten contender while Jeffries fought him. " According to the Philadelphia Record, it was plain Munroe had not really trained for this fight as he appeared flabby and pale for Johnson " My question to you which I did not see answered is this. You seem to focus onJeffries for fighting smaller men. He wasn't floored to stopped by sub 200 pound men, that was Johnson, Dempsey and Louis. Do you hold them to the same standards?
Exhibitions are not fights ,if they were Joe Louis would have another 200 fights on his record. Vaudeville 3/4 rounders against local tough men and debutee tyros are not boxing matches. Fitzsimons had over 200 of these, Jeffries had about 200 up to the time he retired and many many more when he went on the road around the country with Tom Sharkey, when both were retired. Munroe was a 3rd rater and he would be that were he to weigh 500lbs. You know or you certainly should do as you are making statements about his condition, that Peter Jackson was in the first throes of consumption and was an alcoholic, he also had not fought for five and a half years! He was in no condition to fight Jeffries or anyone else. Tom Sharkey ,remarking on the "fight" said ,"Jackson was a physical wreck I would have been ashamed to fight him".Jeffries himself later recalled," Peter was gone,just a shell when I fought him." Newspapers said Jim Jeffries, who was neither consumptive nor an alcoholic , had regained his condition and was in great form prior to the Johnson fight, do you believe them? The fact that you are using these terrible examples to boost Jeffries power smacks of real desperation. Fitzsimmons ko'd Ruhlin in the 6th round and Gus had to be put to bed at the arena as he was too weak to travel and only conscious in lapses .A Doctor was in attendance with him all night.he spent a week convalescing at his managers home after this Against Jeffries Ruhlin was retired between the 5th and 6th rounds whilst sitting on his stool,fully conscious and his manager came in for a great deal of criticism for retiring him early.There is simply no comparison between the two results.To argue Jeffries victory was more impressive means one of two things ,1you haven't researched the two fights or,2 you are in massive denial and blinded by bias. Added to this is the fact that Fitz beat Ruhlin first.Please let's hear no more of this nonsense. I've read a couple of biographies of Fitzsimmons. neither states the Cornishman had his ribs broken by Jeffries. Neither did Sharkey suffer 3 broken ribs against Jeffries, Sharkey claimed different things at different times,I'm reading his biography at the moment.It's likely 1. or possibly 2 ribs were cracked and examination after the fight appears to confirm it. It should also be remembered that the gloves they wore were significantly smaller than those Braddock used and that Jeffries was in the habit of not wearing hand wraps. The reports of the fight in the new book say many believed Sharkey worth at least a draw,but that he tired badly in the last 5 rounds and this may have influenced the referee.Sentiment for the smaller, more aggressive man obviously may have played a big part in this opinion. Joe Goddard was 40 years old when he fought Jeffries if you want to take something meaningful from Jeffries victory that's up to you,the fight reports I have say Goddard was pathetic. Grombach,Cooper,Keith,McCallum,Odd ,never saw Jeffries fight ,so their opinion is of no more value than yours or mine, perhaps less since we have more statistical information and more access to film than earlier boxing journalists had. ps Ned Brown was born in1882, so he never saw Jeffries fight either! Unless you think the 7years old Brown was ringside for the Sharkey fight? The only one of those you mentioned who actually saw Jeffries fight was Tex Rickard who refereed him in his hopeless come back with Johnson. After the fight Rickard said this. "After Johnson colored Jeffries eye with that left hook in the second round,I knew it was the Negro's fight." "Jack Johnson is the most wonderful fighter that ever pulled on a glove .He won as he pleased from Jeffries and was never in danger.I could not help feeling sorry for the big white man as he fell before the champion's blows.It was the most pitiable sight I ever saw. As a matter of fact ,I felt way down in my heart that Jeffries would be the winner of the fight. Jeffries could not hit Johnson ,and Johnson could hit Jeffries whenever he pleased.Johnson was a perfect wizard on defense and his terrific punches worried Jeffries right from the start." Seems a different fight to the one you described on an earlier thread doesn't it? One man who did see both Jeffries and Dempsey in their primes stated," Dempsey not only hits harder than Jeffries ,he hits a lot faster."that man was Sam Langford. Now for agreement,I do believe Jeffries hit significantly harder than Braddock and I've already said so ,so why you bothered making these comments is rather a mystery?
Johnson hurt Munroe and after flooring him in the second round Munroe contented himself with just surviving.Johnson did not try and stop him. You appear to be relying onBox rec for your information.I have the round by round fight report's from several contemporary papers. They confirm what I have posted and refute what you have. I hold all boxers to the same standards and I answered the question,including the caveat that Jeffries could not be held at fault because his best wins were over much smaller men.Perhaps you should read my reply again?
Jeffries wasn't the hitter like Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey or Sonny Liston but it's hard to argue him not being a hitter. He was more than solid and definitely better than Braddock.
Head to head, I am not entirely convinced that the best version of Jeffries beats the best version of Braddock. If he tries that silly crouch, lead hook to the body, Braddock is going to be all over him like a cheap suit and probably drop him at some point. Braddock is tall and long and quick enough. Just telling it like I see it.
You see Braddock dropping Jeffries? Really? I don't see any KD here to be honest. I just think that Jeffries body attack would get the job done and he'd got clear decision. Jeffries fought against taller, longer and quicker fighters than him.
Which fighters over 6 feet 2 did Jeffries face? I can only find 1, Bob Armstrong who was basically sparring partner level.
