POLL: Who would you favor against Frazier?

Liston belongs on this.

 

I've got Tyson, Lewis, Wlad and Bowe beating him.

Imo he beats Ali, Johnson, Holmes, Holyfield and Louis

 

Replacing Johnson with Liston, there is just one fighter left I wouldn´t favor against Frazier.

 

Actually, Johnson could win beat Frazier. He had very durable body and fared well against swarmers.

 

Trying to give a rundown of each matchup as I see it:

Johnson: Frazier likely decisions him thanks to his relentless workrate. Johnson's slipperiness and grappling skills would frustrate Frazier a lot and he might run into a few uppercuts too. Ultimately though, I think he gets through enough to convince the judges. Johnson for me is always one of the most difficult fighters to envision against more modern heavies as his style is so idiosyncratic and different to everything that came afterwards; In general I don't take the heavyweights of his era too seriously as I think that the sport was still evolving. Johnson though obviously had great innate ability and a lot of tricks up his sleeve so I might be underestimating him. The ruleset used might also affect how this one plays out.

Louis: One of the worst stylistic matchups for Frazier. Louis excelled at timing opponents and cutting them down with counter punches, especially his nuclear bomb of a right hand. He excelled against predictable and rhythmic fighters and Frazier fits that bill. Louis would struggle a bit for a few rounds and maybe have to survive some scary moments but once he's able to read and predict Frazier's rhythm, he lowers the boom and Frazier is knocked cold.

Ali: Not much to say here, we saw how it played out. Those guys were each other's nemesis. No clear favorite for me but I'd probably give a slight edge to Ali overall.

Holmes: Frazier by decision or late TKO. Holmes had a lot of the same tools as Ali, but his somewhat more stationary and a bit slower footwork would turn the tides in Joe's favour here IMO. Larry had a monolithic chin, excellent skills and a champion's tenacity though and his uppercut might be more of a factor here so I'm not at all confident in picking Frazier, just my gut feeling.

Second part coming.

 

Yeah i actually think johnson is all wrong for Frazier. The tight defense, the superb clinching, his ability to conserve stamina for the later rounds serve him well. The beginning of the fight would be incredibly boring since both are usually slow starters but around the 5th or so it would become very interesting.

Johnson had good physical strength and a great ring general at many ranges and angles--Frazier isnt going to just have his way on the inside even though he may be the greatest swarmer at heavy. Johnson also had a great uppercut.

I think the biggest factor is that frazier often forces you to fight at his pace and likes to have it become a highly intense close range hitting match ay all times. With Johnson you have a guy that doesnt care if the crowd is booing for being too cautious or "boring". He'd take entire rounds off to buy time or set traps; in fact he he enjoyed enfuriating the crowd and humiliating his opponents. The worst thing for Frazier to do is to let it get to him and lose his game plan because he has only 1 way of fighting and johnson was a master of chaos and changing things up.

 

Abe Simon should be included as well

 

I dreamed I beat up a younger Joe Frazier

 

Part 2:

Tyson: Mike KO's him. Frazier is not afraid to come straight at Tyson and that is his undoing. After one or several explosive exchanges at ring center, Frazier is stretched out on the canvas and Tyson is triumphant. This fight is like two cars running into each other with Tyson being the faster and heavier sports model better equipped for acceleration and short races.

Holyfield: I'm a bit uneducated when it comes to Evander so my opinion here is rather uninformed but I'd say Frazier takes a close decision in a gruelling fight in close quarters.

Bowe: Same as before, haven't seen enough of Riddick to have an informed opinion. From what I've seen Bowe has the right style to beat Frazier but sometimes was too lax and inattentive so he might get into danger a few times too. I'll call it a pick-em fight until I know more.

Lewis: succesfully keeps Frazier at a distance or ties him up up close with Frazier maybe getting through a few times. Eventually Lewis catches him with an uppercut and ends it.

Wlad: Frazier has the style and skill to slip the jab and get inside. The problem is, as soon as he gets there Wlad ties him up and leans on him just as Ali did, but with half a cow more weight. I see Frazier succesfully pressuring him a few times and bludgeoning him against the ropes but Wlad survives and eventually gets the judges' decision. There is also the possibility of Wlad landing a particularly vicious right hand and finishing Joe.

 

That's tough to say. Johnson lost one fight against Hart because of relentless pressure, but most people said he was never in danger, he simply was too passive. Tough to say without footage though.

In terms of physical atributes, Johnson fared well against bigger and stronger fighters than Frazier in the clinch. Of course, Joe was ATG inside fighter so it would be very tough but if anyone could handle Frazier inside, it's Johnson.

Another important point is that Johnson had amazing straight left. It's tough to call it a simple jab, it was more like a counter punch. It had the power and quickness to trouble Joe who was a bit mechanical with his bob and weave.

There are two options for this fight - either Frazier would be too busy and he'd tire Johnson and break him down in late rounds or Johnson would control the fight and frustrate Frazier so much that he wouldn't be able to do enough for a decision. 50/50 fight for me.

 

Thats possible too. I wasnt suggesting Johnson would win easily, prime frazier has a chance with almost anyone even his bad matchups. You had to practically shoot him to stop him and you better hope the ref isnt lenient.

Frazier "out working" Johnson requires that Johnson fights at fraziers pace and gets suckered in. I dont think he would, not at his absolute best. Johnson was an confident s.o.b but he was no fool and if allowed to study film before hand he would use all sorts of spoiler tactics/ugly wrestling, and dictating a slow pace whenever he could. Look at the 2nd Ali vs Fraizer fight as evidence that frazier could be tied up. It looked like someone throwing a wet blanket over a stove, all the smoke gone. Or the Bonavena/quarry fights as evidence if someone is a decent inside fighter themselves they can be competitive even with a prime Frazier, Bonavena didnt have 10% of Johnson's skill/experience and quarry had an unfortunate cut just when it was getting interesting.

Im assuming you mean a 10 year old version of Frazier? Why would yoou fantasize about that? Because lord knows if by "young" you mean a prime frazier than obviously whatever alcoholic beverage you indulge in couldnt possibly be enough to explain such delusions. Did you catch Joe hitting on your grandma at the grocery store and he gave you a death glare when you tried to say something? I know a good substance abuse counselor if you're willing to go.