Was Liston shot when he lost to Martin?

Hmmm let's see. He was 40 years old, probably much older, had slowed considerably, his stamina wasn't what it used to be nor his defense. On top of that Foreman, a sparring partner of Liston's at the time said the following: I saw a chink was when he fought Leontes Martin. But then Liston was sick prior to that. He got a cold he just couldn't recover from. And he would go out after a boxing match and start drinking and it would sometimes last a month. Then he'd come back and get into training. I think he finally went to the well, and there just wasn't any water.

 

According to some he wasn't "much past it"

 

He was well past his best, but it would still have taken an exceptional fighter to beat him.

 

Martin wasnt exceptional.

 

First of all Liston never made it to forty plus years. he died at 39 or 40 years old one year later than the Martin fight in 1970.

Sure against Martin, Liston was past his best. But he was not getting beaten up or struggling against lesser fighters in the way shot fighters do.

A shot fighter is a fighter who has too much wear and tear, too many wars and can no longer convincingly win a fight. They can’t usually knock guys out anymore.

Sonny was just old. He had been treading water beating up second tier guys so long that one step above that would be too much.

It turned out Leotis was one step too far even though he had been selected as quite a safe opponent because Leotis had lost to Henry Clark, one of Sonnys last impressive wins.

So Sonny was shot beating Scrap iron Johnson or he was only shot a few months later when he lost to Martin?

Sometimes it happens that quick. Even so, Sonny was a deservedly legit contender at that moment.

Leotis knocked out a legitimate contender when he beat Liston.

 

I think its fair to say that he was pretty good.

 

A good fighter who never got the breaks.Torn lip against Ellis,detached retina against Liston.

 

The wheels can fall off very quickly at that age and with that lifestyle. I think it is safe to say, given evidence of his abilities, that- on that night- he was nowhere near the fighter he had been.

 

Seamus....I MUST go to SEA!!!

 

I've watched that fight, Sonny blasted Martin to the canvas but didn't finish him, looked to me like Sonny had zero stamina for that fight and ran outta gas early . He was still very dangerous

 

Yes I agree. He had zero stamina under that kind of resistance. But he blasted Martin to the canvas. Shot fighters don’t blast fighters to the canvas. Faded ones can.

I think the definition of shot, needs to be applied here. For me, Sonny was past prime. Lacking in stamina because he was used to easier fights. ..but shot? He was beating contenders. And knocking them over.

To me a shot fighter is a damaged fighter. Coordination gone. Limited options.

A once great fighter who can still beat contenders can clearly be past prime. But shot? Shot fighters can’t win that convincingly any more.

Martin beat a good contender. He did not beat a prime fighter.

 

Swag, my man, Liston was on a steady decline ever since the 2nd Patterson fight.

 

Quote possibly before then. Liston represented such a poor style for Liston that he probably could've beaten that Patterson past his best

Not saying he did but fighting 2 partial rounds in as many years can't be good for a fighter in his prime

 

Which ranked contender did Liston beat after he lost to Ali?

 

Couldn't talk. I have a cat who is more articulate than Martin was.