What are the odds of Harry Greb Film ever being discovered?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Greb & Papke 707, Jul 16, 2019.



  1. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Every boxer is judged on how he looks in the ring. That's essentially all we talk about.

    Insisting Greb will remain immune to that type of critique if his films become available is laughable. When Greb footage becomes available, he'll be judged on how he looks in the ring just like everyone else is.

    If he looks bad, his rep will suffer.

    Before films of many of the pioneers were available, they were rated much higher. Now that everyone can see them, not so much ... certainly not like they were before films were readily available.
     
    Pat M likes this.
  2. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Congrats on not at all replying the point in the post you replied to.

    And given you think Wilder KOs Joe Frazier, I'm not sure how you can wave the banner for rating fighters based on how they look.
     
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  3. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes, I think one of the hardest punchers who ever fought in the boxing, who has nearly a foot in height and reach over Frazier, would knock out Joe Frazier, considering Frazier was down 11 times in 37 fights, was KOed twice and was pretty damn easy to hit. (Because I can see them both fight.)

    Why don't you think Wilder beats Frazier? It wouldn't be based on how Wilder looks in the ring, would it?

    Is there something about Wilder's awkward style that lowers your opinion of him?

    Don't be a hypocrite.

    EVERY boxer is judged on how he looks in the ring.

    Greb will be no exception when footage of him fighting is made available. Don't be naive.

    Corbett and Jeffries used to be rated above Ali on all-time lists, until millions of people got to see them "in action." And the myths didn't match the tape.

    If Greb looks bad on film, he'll be held to the same scrutiny others are held to and his rep will suffer.

    If he looks BRILLIANT ... then there's nothing to worry about.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
    Pat M likes this.
  4. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Are we meant to be just throwing random talking points at each other?

    You're still utterly failing at responding to what I said, instead seemingly responding to some other post you made up.
     
  5. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I literally just responded to your SNIDE comment about me picking Wilder over Frazier.

    Every fighter is judged by how they look in the ring. Greb will be, too, when footage is available.

    I know you want to argue, but it's a pretty straightforward statement.

    The only boxers judged SOLELY on who they fought are the boxers where no footage is available.

    When footage is available, we can see how Greb performed AND we can see how his opponents performed. How the opponent performed often carries more weight than the performance of the guy who won.

    For example, Larry Holmes' win over Ali would carry a lot more weight if we just had a couple of Ali's 1960s fights and NO footage of Holmes and no footage of Holmes-Ali. Same for Tyson's win over Larry Holmes. That might seem even more impressive if we just had Holmes' record and no footage of the fight.

    How the opponent looks THAT NIGHT matters, too.

    Greb also has a ton of no-decision (newspaper) wins. If footage becomes available, and fans don't agree with the scoring, that changes perception, too.

    Fans totally discredit wins of boxers if they (THE FANS) didn't agree with the judges. Greb's been immune to that scrutiny, too.

    When footage becomes available, a lot about Greb will most certainly change. Probably not for the better. Because Greb's been in a bubble when it comes to critiques of his and his opponents' performances.

    And boxing fans can be merciless.

    You clearly totally discredit Wilder's draw with Fury - even though Wilder scored two knockdowns - because YOU didn't agree with the scoring.

    It's not like Greb won every decision and every no-decision unanimously. It's not like he wasn't flaltened by nobodies. It's not like Greb didn't have to hustle to win the nod by a couple more newspaper writers while other writers picked the other guy.

    Today, we can just say "well that was another win for Greb unoffiicially" and not give it a second thought. When there is footage, everything changes.

    That's all. I don't really see what there is to argue about.

    We judge fighters by how they look in the ring. Greb has gotten a pass so far. He won't when we see him in the ring.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2019
  6. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    You responded to a made up version of my post where I said I didn't judge fighters based on how they look ever at all, and never actually responded to my point in responding to you.

    That is you can't compare discouting looking awkward in a fighter who proved their effectiveness against one of the most grueling series of challenges any fighter even tried going against, and a guy who beat a couple forgettable contenders, struggled with a bunch of nobies and got a gift against a reflexive fighter coming off being out of training and taking drugs.

    At this stage we'll be lucky to get some clips for one of his fights, we're never going to be able to start rescoring a significant portion of his career.

    It's not like his record is built from a couple key wins. His record is so deep you could easilly write off 10 of his wins and he'd still be an ATG. The idea of him fighting people overdosed on drugs or giving equivilent performances, or him getting gift decisions in 40 or so ATG wins is absurd just on the face of it. And when the papers are talking him proving his ATG qualities against Walker I doubt he was fighting a zombie or getting lucky.
     
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  7. El Hans

    El Hans Member banned Full Member

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    Greb is one of those clinch and punch sorts his talent is to neutralise their boxing skill I've watched film of his sparring matches against an aged Ortiz he looks like an amateur.
     
  8. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Pat again is lost. Lost soul really.

    Grebs style in the ring is very well documented. He was unconventional, awkward and threw punches non stop and tirelessly no matter the distance. He was also as tough as nails with a resume of wins that is a who’s who of great fighters. No one before or since has such a resume. All this is why Greb has been rated a top ATG middleweight for the past 90 years.
     
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  9. Hannibal Barca

    Hannibal Barca Active Member Full Member

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    Steve, which boxer's stature do you think based on your having viewed an extensive array of rare fights is underappreciated most?
     
  10. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think as time has went on there’s more an appreciation of Wilder.
    I’ve certainly warmed to him the last year or two.
    I still think he sometimes looks awkward and some of his fundamentals are poor, especially the way he tends to completely lose his composure when he has an opponent in trouble, but there’s no doubting his power which as a heavyweight makes him exciting.
    He also showed he could dig in and showed heart when hurt in the Ortiz fight.
    Surely however, if some people are saying he looks awkward, but he’s still getting the job done, proves their point regarding Greb?
     
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  11. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The trouble with Pat is he rails against the old timers, yet is a completely agenda ridden modernist which totally influences his opinion.
    He’s basically said in that last post that everyone Greb beat must have been crap.
     
  12. 70sFan865

    70sFan865 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    By his logic every good modern fighter who looks amateurish and doesn't fight in fundamental way is "unconvencional" and "talented" but fighters from the past were simply bad. He says he doesn't care about who beats who, but when two modern fighters looks bad he can't admit that.
     
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  13. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Comparing Tommy Gibbons, Mike Gibbons, Mickey Walker, and Gene Tunney to Tony Galento. :pancarta:
     
  14. BitPlayerVesti

    BitPlayerVesti Boxing Drunkie Full Member

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    Yet I don't remember his talking about Luis Ortiz being terrible because he lost to Wilder.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
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  15. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Id have to think about that. Off the top of my head maybe Hostak. Hostak is always written in modern recaps of his career as a puncher giving the impression he went out and tried to bang guys out of there. He was really much more of a boxer first and a puncher second. He was smart and patient. He waited for or created openings in which to unleash his power. He wasnt just a "puncher" in the traditional sense of the word which typically, correct or not, indicates a guy who relies mostly on his power and goes out with the intention of a blasting a guy out with little or no plan B.
     
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