Does the Ali of Frazier II win FOTC?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Ted Spoon, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. Ted Spoon

    Ted Spoon Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2005
    Messages:
    3,213
    Likes Received:
    988
    Ali came in with less arrogance and a game plan, but now he has to go three more rounds against a fresher Frazier.

    Different outcome, or is Smokin' Joe too much?
     
  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Messages:
    26,838
    Likes Received:
    44,098
    No. FOTC Joe beats every version of Ali
     
  3. Bronze Tiger

    Bronze Tiger Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2018
    Messages:
    4,225
    Likes Received:
    5,092
    Not a prime Cassius Clay ...
     
  4. christpuncher

    christpuncher Active Member banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2019
    Messages:
    699
    Likes Received:
    529
    he doesn't beat pre-lay off Ali
     
  5. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2019
    Messages:
    26,838
    Likes Received:
    44,098
    66 Ali would take less punishment against Joe but he'd still lose
     
    TipNom and RockyJim like this.
  6. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2016
    Messages:
    13,531
    Likes Received:
    18,184
    Joe beats any version of Ali in 1971, I doubt a younger Ali would have lasted
     
    Hookandjab and RockyJim like this.
  7. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2010
    Messages:
    15,903
    Likes Received:
    7,626
    Only prime Ali beats FOTC Frazier
     
    swagdelfadeel and RockyJim like this.
  8. HOUDINI

    HOUDINI Boxing Addict Full Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2012
    Messages:
    5,479
    Likes Received:
    1,604
    Ali was in much better shape for fight 2. Not comparable. That Ali beats 1971 Frazier.
     
  9. robert ungurean

    robert ungurean Богдан Philadelphia Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Messages:
    15,866
    Likes Received:
    14,655
    Frazier still wins
     
  10. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2014
    Messages:
    24,404
    Likes Received:
    18,017
    Yes. Different outcome.

    After being out three and a half years, Ali fought three times in five months - October 1970 to March 1971. He was gassed after three rounds with Quarry. He was tired throughout most of the Bonavena fight and didn't impress anyone until the final round. And, against Frazier, Ali threw and landed a lot, but he laid on the ropes more than he had in any fight in his career to that point and he was basically done after the 10th.

    Ali actually looked sharper and stronger against Ellis three months after the first Frazier fight than he did against Frazier.

    And, by the time the Frazier rematch rolled around, Ali was sharp. He had his endurance back. And he had Frazier hurt in the second and may have dropped him if not for the ref jumping between them because he thought he heard the bell.

    I don't think Ali stops Frazier in fight one, but I think Ali was better enough in the return and quicker on his feet later in the fight to not get caught and win a 15-round decision.
     
    Eel87 likes this.
  11. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2014
    Messages:
    18,432
    Likes Received:
    19,314
    I think most people underestimate Ali's performance in the FOTC. Sure he may have lost, but he put up a hell of a fight. One of his best performances. Very well may've been the best Ali we've seen in the 70s.
     
  12. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2005
    Messages:
    13,635
    Likes Received:
    331
    FOTC was close. 74 Ali had those extra bouts he missed coming off the layoff

    In fact, I believe 1972 Ali whips same yearJoe Frazier

    1966 Ali, forget it. I see punches coming from everywhere, blinding and bewildering Joe and finally stopping him late. If not, a UD for Ali
     
  13. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Messages:
    51,720
    Likes Received:
    42,053
    It would be very close. I'd back pre-exile Ali for sure.
     
    swagdelfadeel likes this.
  14. Tonto62

    Tonto62 Boxing Addict banned Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2011
    Messages:
    5,040
    Likes Received:
    4,968
    Yes.
     
  15. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2019
    Messages:
    8,591
    Likes Received:
    11,369
    I'm not positive Ali won that second fight, and let's face it he wasn't big George, he earned that shot by beating no-joke contenders.

    Post-FOTC Ali was much more cerebral, and it showed both in the second Frazier and Norton as well as Foreman.

    Cerebral still wouldn't have helped him with the FOTC. I do see 60s Ali quite possibly overwhelming Frazier with the extra punches and movement...

    but even then, Joe was a total juggernaut the night of FOTC. I just don't see anyone beating him that night. Just my opinion.