Who was the most overrated heavyweight boxer of all time?

Ali did not retreat to the ropes because it was hot. He began fighting more stationary which included laying on the ropes after round one because:

1). Ring canvas was very padded making side to side movement exhausting.
2). Foreman’s ability to cut off the ring. Ali saw he was moving 4 steps to Foreman’s 2.
3). Foreman was much quicker than Ali anticipated.

Among these I am sure the heat also played some part to his decision to change tactics but it was not the primary reason.

 

This is testified to by Ali himself ,he found Foreman was cutting him of and felt winded early so he improvised and went to the ropes while,as he said ,"he was fresh".

 

The current top 4 spring to mind. I've seen posters actually pick Fury to beat several ATG's. He's done nothing, NOTHING, to warrant that kind of acclaim.

 

He also dropped him 3 times

 

Silly comments:

Dempsey was universally acclaimed as a top ten ATG hwt champion for many decades. Even today. You have leading experts who stated as such....Langford, Arcel, Bimstein, Fleischer...many many others.

Foreman koed a universally acclaimed hwt champion who was thought unbeatable and koed easily the No 1 contender and then came back neatly 20 years later to rewin that championship. This feat alone gives him top ten status. It’s akin to the Superbowl champion from 2003 getting back together and rewinning the championship again in 2020.

 

Nothing’s etched in stone but Ali overrated FFS.
Someone on another thread posted the Ring Magazine’s top 10 heavyweight lists from 1963 and 1973.
In the ‘63 list he beat everyone, apart from Eddie Machen who he never fought.
10 years later on the ‘73 list he beat everyone.
Now even allowing that he may have been given a couple of decisions in very close fights it really is quite remarkable.
Also what’s this punch bag against Foreman routine? You talk about not giving credit when it’s due in one of the great wins, incidentally as a huge underdog.
Overrated? Get out of here.

 

And picked him up twice!

 

Not so, you gave a round by round, which featured few punches and you said Johnson lands twice when we clearly only see once.

Ghost punches. Most champions would roll Moran, yet he was competitive with Johnson, who fouled him.

 

Haven't seen many ranking McFarland and Canzoneri at Heavyweight

 

By "we" you mean "I", I suppose? Because nobody backed up your opinion in that debate.

He wasn't competitive at all, the only trouble he gave Johnson is that Jack had to stay in the ring for 20 rounds, nothing else.
He hit him on the break with light punch and got warned for that. That's not enough to say that he was troubled.

 

St Petersburg Times
“Johnson beat Moran easily”

SI 1959
“It was true that Johnson was not in first-rate condition, but his superlative defense held up, and he was able to evade the dreaded Mary Ann and give Moran a severe beating without the full use of his left arm.”

Le Cri de Paris: "Johnson had a cakewalk with a fighter he probably could have rid himself of in a few minutes." This paper alleged that Johnson carried Moran because he was an owner of 2/3 of the motion picture revenue and hoped to make money by making the film longer and making Moran look good for white audiences.

Le Journal: "The Negro champion of the world dominated his challenger for twenty rounds." and "Almost from the beginning of the contest it seemed as if the fight would not last ten rounds. This was a mistake because Johnson never pressed his attack and the contest lasted the limit."

Le Matin: "Jack Johnson smiled throughout the contest, smiled openly, smiled at his seconds, and laughed at Frank Moran whenever Moran would hit him in the stomach. The public was disgusted with his exhibition." The paper compared Moran to a school boy playing the role of a general who is then confronted with having to fill the generals shoes and is ill prepared for the task at hand. It intimated that while Moran was brave he appeared to lose confidence the instant Johnson entered the ring.

Le Petit Parisien: "He (Johnson) beat Moran on points easily."

L'Humanite: "By the third round Johnson had asserted his superiority over Moran." "The match was disappointing, one is left with the impression that Moran is not in Johnson's class." "Johnson clearly won on points but he is no longer the Johnson of old."

Le Figaro: This paper also said Johnson had the fight firmly in his grasp by the third round despite it being a dull monotonous affair. "Moran did not understand that at 27 years old he must take the fight to the 36 year old Johnson." By the tenth round Johnson was in such control that the author expected him to land a knockout blow at any moment. "Defeat (for Moran) was a certainty." The paper stated that Johnson was "infinitely better than Moran" and his smiling and mocking of an opponent so inferior was beneath him.

La Sport Universel Illustre: "Frank Moran, despite all of his inferiority, despite his poor quality, will now be able to avail himself of the privilege of having gone twenty rounds with Jack Johnson." "It was twenty rounds of monotony which ended in Johnson winning his victory without having to utilize his scientific knowledge of boxing."

Most accounts mention Moran bleeding constantly throughout from his nose and that a cut above his eye affected his vision.

 

Nobody else bothered to read the round by round and watch the films. You wrote punches that do not show up on film.

Johnson didn't win this fight 20-0, It was close. And Johnson fouled more than just hitting Moran on the break, he pinched his biceps in the clinches too. The ref was rather pro Johnson.

 

I've watched it around 25 times and saw one foul by Johnson which the referee Georges Carpentier correctly called , Johnson hitting on the command to break.I saw Moran backhanded Johnson twice and rabbit punched him too.The contemporary reports emphasized the lack of fouls.

Nothing close about this fight at all, as every newspaper confirms!

After the fight Carpentier was asked if he would like to fight Johnson,he replied "he is a little too big for me at present".
Less than a month later at the age of 20 Carpentier beat GunBoat Smith!Lol
Houdini has taken the trouble to find and post 9, yes NINE separate contemporary accounts of the Johnson v Moran fight.All of which directly and flatly contradict your stance on this fight.
Yet you continue on your merry way , posting as if nothing has happened!
You are definitely NOT wired up correctly!

 

Johnson won all rounds available on the film, that's for sure.

 

Possibly they were referring to Jack Dempsey ,The NonPareil? Ever think of that?