The great limit of George Foreman

If you look at my comment...I was responding to person who said George Foreman’s power is overrated

 

He was no Willie Pep but his skillset within his own aggressive style was formidable, well suited and balanced. He maneuvered people with ease and was quite sprite of foot.He also had an extremely good jab.

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Gassed twice ever and there were big intangibles prevalent. Lets be honest - Who was going to go deep enough for peak unbeaten Foreman to lose via gassing. Beside Ali it's one very very short list.

Foreman was one of the greatest offensive heavyweights ever. This is just nitpicking. His crude arm swinging had not trouble disposing of ATG Frazier and an excellent fighter in Norton among others. He had ways of setting up his punches and putting guys exactly where he wanted them.

Nitpicking. Ali was simply looking for pre-fghts advantages and when push came to shove Foreman was cutting the ring off against him with ease hence rope-a-dope. Ali predicted Foreman would not catch him but was proved blatantly incorrect. Foreman was actually quite sprite on his feet and cut the ring off superbly. Ali was surprised at this.

True, like oh so many others including plenty of ATG's. When that plan A is as strong as it was there's seldom much more needed. Hank Armstrong was a plan A guy and usually resides between #2 and #4 on lists of the greatest fighters ever.

Ali is Ali and there's only one of him. It is my heavy contention that Foreman was never the same after he lost to Ali. He lost that aura of invincibility both externally and within his own mindset. On top of this Foreman took the Lyle fight immediately after the confidence destroying loss to Ali and with well over a years inactivity to boot! Lyle was a top 4 heavyweight at the time so that's a pretty big challenge he set himself. It's often regarded as the greatest heavyweight war ever.

Foreman had his own defensive traits and tho he was never that special defensively he got by quite nicely. You can see in that first clip that he handled Joe and his offensive threat with aplomb. He was also reasonably adept at leaning back out of range of punches ala the likes of Monzon and Ali himself.

https://ytcropper.com/cropped/a45d64b75e4102d

Bit gobsmacked on this one. Last time i looked he left Lyle prone face first on the canvas for the 10 count. Lyle was a mess. Ali stopped Lyle in the late rounds with Lyle still on his feet. The one time Foreman caught Young clean he was out on his feet for some time but Foreman was too tired to finish him.

Irregardless Jimmy Young was stopped just twice in his career. Once as a 10 fight novice against Shavers and once on a bad cut against Cooney when he'd not actually been stunned. Young fought truckloads of good to great fighters and was still going the distance as an old man against the likes of up and comers such as Dokes and Page.

Oh Gordon.

Blatantly incorrect. Certainly not his strong suit but nothing like as bad as what you try to portray.

Losing to Ali was certainly not total exposure. He landed enough in those first three rounds to put him in position to stop a great many ATG's. A huge hook, some massive right hands and also some downright disgusting body shots. These would have had the massive majority of opponents on the way out.

As i say i believe his peak ended with Ali but even so he actually beat Lyle despite coming off the Ali loss and not fighting for more than a year. Was Holmes totally exposed against Snipes, Weaver, Witherspoon et al? Was Louis totally exposed against Galento and co? The list is endless. They all have their struggles.

Grossly untrue.

I think this one sums up your feelings and attitude toward Foreman. It has nothing to do with the topic. Holyfield a cruiserweight? Holyfield had been a fully fledged heavyweight for 7 fights. He had wiped out Douglas who had in turn just beaten Mike Tyson.

Holyfield was the lineal Heavyweight champion. Holyfield weighed in at 208 pounds which was 1 pound lighter than Holmes when he beat Norton and 2 pounds heavier than Ali when he beat Liston in their rematch.

Foreman was 42 years old!!!

Again nothing to do with the thread topic. Foreman is what 45 and Morrison is a top 10 heavyweight. Morrison is one of the best heavyweight punchers ever but has to revert to something unseen from him and avoid mixing it with Foreman. This speaks volumes.

Again this has nothing to do with the topic.

Foreman knocks out the reigning undefeated lineal champion at 45 years old and it's a bad thing. Oh and Moorer is a light heavyweight LOLOL

This just shows serious bias against poor old George and is going out of ones way to denigrate obviously.

 

Jimmy Young said George had him out on his feet, "if he had sneezed I would have gone down".

 

Yes I've read that one and others. It was a huge hook.

• Foreman hurt Young with a left hook in the 7th round. Young later said, "George did not know it, but while I may have been standing, I was out cold. He could have pushed me over with his little finger. How I survived that round I will never know."

 

Wow, you spent a lot of time on that .. all well done JT.

 

Hey thanks HG!!

 

Damn!
Combine that with my estimation of Frazier beeing overrated H2H, Ali isn´t that good too!

And to put this is even further: How good was the "late60s-early70s era" if a fellow that slow, no class, no footwork, wide swinging, couldn´t sing, no defense and puffing after four rounds could go 40-0 (37) !?

 

I tried to answer the question ( something many posters stray from)
But you are entitled to your opinions and you put them well.
You certainly gave me a GRILLING ...Lol

 

Hahahaha!! Good stuff Gordon. I have to say with zero malice intended i am seriously curious as to why Foreman brings out the x in you. There are fighters i bandy around in here as ones i believe to be a little overrated but there is a definite disdain (to put it mildly) in your posts when talking Foreman. You are very measured in all your other posts mate. Regardless it's always a pleasure mate.

 

Defense. Versatility.

 

Most of the above is valid. But not number 8. He did put Lyle away, eventually. Remember, Lyle rose from the canvas against the murderous punching Shavers to stop Ernie. Lyle was a tough SOB. Ali and Young were slick with great chins. And he did stagger Young. He lost to Ali and Young mostly because of lack of stamina and lack of plan B, not lack of power.

 

I watched Foreman live. No one hit like he did. Thunderous puncher. Unbelievable strength in his blows. All this and he demonstrated it on a 300 pound heavy bag. Manhandled it like it was nothing.

 

Thank you pal.
I'm usually a charitable fellow who sees the good .
I think I've become the pantomime villain regarding George, LOL.
It just makes me chuckle when I see folks sayin, yeh he would destroy this guy and anhialate that guy, but the facts don't really bear that out.
I truely believe he caught a poor version of Frazier to win the title ( and I'm a big fan of what Frazier achieved right up to the FOTC) I've read alot about Frazier and he just wasnt the same after that.
Norton was beaten before he went in the ring against George and I just dont see any great victories in George 1's career. The Lyle fight , whilst a victory , exposed him as much as the Ali and Young loses. I just dont think a truely great fighter should be exposed 3 times during his peak. Once is forgivable, but 3 ?
Lennox gets alot of stick for his 2 knockout loses as an example , but he was clearly the superior fighter to those opponents and avenged those defeats. George wasn't and he didn't, yet he gets put on such a pedestal.
I've nothing against the guy and yes he deserves credit for his comeback.
I do think most of the reverence for him is down to his first career however. I sometimes wonder if its younger people who have somehow bought into a myth that he took all before him and was this unbeatable force ? Maybe I'm wrong.
I remember watching him as an admittedly very young fellow, but thinking he was a brutal slugger that could be beaten with skill.
Everyone seemed to think it was only Ali that could conquer him and that he was just unfortunate that the Greatest just happened to be around , but Jimmy Young proved you didnt have to be the greatest to beat him and Lyle almost proved it too.
So no, I dont dislike the man at all, hes a great figure in boxing history . I just find it hard to go along with it being taken as read that each time the greats are mentioned he is often straight in there at the top, or almost, for many people on here.
I have him a notch below that level , his ' great ' wins are thin on the ground and his very good / good wins are not as deep a list as other greats. I'm more focusing on George 1 as I think that's where I guess most of the mythology comes from.
Like I say I've always thought his comeback deserves respect if only for his age and he did have a list of good wins.
I have tried to give my views on this subject, plenty of perspective in the past , but hope this helps .

 

facts but he could beat Lennox they say never

 

Who do you think wins Lennox Lewis or Tyson Fury ? Just wondering