Lets add some perspective. While I agree Pacquiao is an ATG, his career has been carefully orchestrated and exaggerated in some degree. Key points: Most of the divisions he has captured titles in he has never dominated. He has fought at catchweights for at least two of the divisions where he win the titles. When he was most dominant and was fighting up to 40 lbs above the weight he started he This content is protected His carefully orchaestarted career in a nutshell: A lot of red to be considered at the very top imo 1996- This content is protected : Pacquiao overweight, gets This content is protected by Journeyman 1998- This content is protected first world title *Fly weight (loses it 8 months later by KTFO) 1999- This content is protected : Pacquiao overweight loses title on scales and proceeds to get This content is protected 2000- Pacquiao gets This content is protected , controversial slow count, could have been ruled another KO loss. Proceeds to win. 2001 This content is protected second world title against Lehlo Ledwaba in second div *S. bantam weight 2001- This content is protected (controversial). Agapito Sanchez, beats up and roughs up Pacquiao, Ref very quick to deduct two points from Sanchez, should have been ruled a loss for Pac, and lost his titles. 2003- Has a very This content is protected against an aging but still top fighter Barrera 2004- Has a controversial This content is protected against Marquez, many felt he should have lost and was the benefactor of favorable scoring since he was HBOs new media darling. 2005- This content is protected to an aging Morales in a last Hurrah for the MX 2006- Avanges his loss to a shot Morales who had to come down from 135 after also losing to Zahid Raheem 2008- This content is protected title in fourth div *S. Featherweight, in This content is protected win against JMM 2008- This content is protected title in fifth div *Lightweight, against David Diaz (weakest titlist at LW) who had won the vacant LW title with a very This content is protected win against a shot Morales. Important to note Pacquiao avoided all the credible lightweight champions. (not considered a real LW champion imo) 2008- Moves up to Welterweight and beats a shot and dehydrated ODLH 2009- Moves down and beats Ricky Hatton 2009- Moves back up This content is protected title in seventh division *Welterweight against Miguel Cotto at a This content is protected of This content is protected for a championship 2010- This content is protected title in 8th division for *Super welterweight title against disgraced and unranked Margarito in a This content is protected fight of This content is protected for a championship (not considered a real SWW champion imo) 2011- Has a very This content is protected win over JMM 2012- Has a controversial loss to Bradley 2013- This content is protected ; Gets This content is protected by JMM 2014- Avenges his controversial loss to Bradley 2015- This content is protected ; Gets taken to school by Floyd Mayweather 2017- This content is protected ; Gets roughed up and beat up by Jeff Horn 2019- Beats a semi active, past prime Keith Thurman
Canelo is the Catchweight King Canelo created his own weight division. Canelo drains guys, but also throws in crippling rehydration clauses. Canelo was caught cheating by VADA. Canelo removed himself from VADA. Canelo was neutered, embarrassed, and humiliated by Floyd Mayweather. Canelo received gift wins against GGG (twice), Lara, and Trout. Canelo uses stacked gloves. Canelo is now ducking GGG. If the anger is that much, fight him and KO him—the financial benefits are there. But we all know that Canelo is waiting for GGG to age a little more. Possibly take a lot of damage or get knocked out in a fight. Canelo is a filthy disgusting drug cheat who enjoys the benefit of rigged scorecards and crippling rehydration clauses.
Well, IsaL...that much effort, with the colour coding and all.. You This content is protected dislike the little Filippino, huh?
There's bias on both sides of the equation of who ranks where as an ATG. Some favor the pugilists of yesteryear, some favor the modern day boxers. To be honest, I find myself biased as well, mostly because I've only been following the sport since around 1980 (thx grandpa). For example, I tend to favor RJJ at his peak to be nigh unstoppable in any era of boxing, even taking into consideration the lack of quality opponents he sometimes faced. But I saw the dude win live so utterly convincing so many times, that he made an indelible impression on me. Same with Iron Mike and a few others. Can I ask you...how many of those 29 boxers ahead of Pacquaio in your ranking did you actually watch live? I thoroughly respect the fighters of the early 20th century, but even though I'm starting to feel more and more like a fossil myself these past years, I'm not of the opinion that everything was just better in the old days. Some **** was and some **** wasn't...
After the Thurman fight, in some people's eyes he surpassed Floyd Mayweather-a man who beat him. Sad.
I was in between appointments, haven't spent much time on this site, and felt it was worth the effort to discuss an important topic for die hard boxing fans. It was actually very easy.
Pac is a great fighter who has fought the best and won more than he lost. But he lost to Jeff Horn and got KTFO by JMM. That's the end of the argument.
Its hard to rank him above any ATG that actually has wins over prime elite opponents without any catchweight stipulations in place. The closest thing he has to beating a top elite opponent is Barrera, and at that time it was the consensus that Barrera was not the same fighter he was pre Morales. So while Barrera was still game and a force, he wasn't t his best imo.
Surely it’s not absurd to put Pac around Top 20 ATG? I’m sorry but I just don’t buy the idea that Barrera wasn’t the same fighter when it was known that he evolved to a better fighter after the losses to Junior Jones. He arguably beat Morales in the first fight, and then beat future HOFers such as Hamed, Tapia, and then Morales in the rematch before he faced Pac. You can spin it any way you want as far as Pac having not having wins over prime elite opponents but history will say that he has wins over a prime JMM, an undefeated Tim Bradley, and undefeated Thurman, all legit fighters. It just seems like you’re going out of your way to completely undermine Pac’s overall achievement.
I'm a weird one on this, I admit, but the fact that a fighter loses can be a sign of quality for me, depending on what he accomplishes afterwards. If he goes on to have meaningfull bouts after a loss, it either means he has the mental fortitude to accept he ****ed up and/or adjusts and improves...or simply that he was willing to fight the better and possibly best fighter out there. Losses can possibly raise a fighters stock for me, I don't put as much importance on the whole "undefeated" thing as some do
I was following boing back then, and the consensus was that both Morales and Barrera left something in the ring when they fought. Tapia was way smaller and also past his prime, so I don't even consider that a top win for Barrera. I saw the fight, it was PPV for like 20 bucks. Barrera was also a lot slower against Tapia and did not even press the action until the end and for a short spurt. The Hamed win was excellent, Barrera though not at his very best was still a much better and stronger fighter than Hamed. I had Barrera losing to Morales in the first two fights, and only barely beating him in the rubber match after Morales was a more spent fighter. Still, I posted that the Barrera fight was a very good win for Pacquiao and probably his defining moment as an elite.
While I agree with a lot of what you are saying, you are also spinning it in pretty much the most negative way which, when you do that for any fighter can make their resume look poor. Do that same thing for even Mayweather and his looks mediocre too. Anyone can spin things in their favor and it's because boxing is a joke.
