Again, you’re being disingenuous. It’s like you’re trying to compete with mark ant for making irrelevant points. If you believe that Floyd rates higher than Whitaker then so be it. Floyd was no doubt a great fighter and you wouldn’t be alone, but stop bringing up JMM as some valid point; he’s not. It was already explained to you why most consider that fight a great win in name only. Let me spell it out for you again: Floyd was 4 years younger. Floyd was taller. Floyd had a 5” reach advantage. Floyd had far, far less wear and tear on his body (39-0 vs 50-4-1 at the time) Floyd was naturally bigger, having turned pro at 130 and going up to welterweight much sooner and even having fought at 154. JMM turned pro at 126 and at the time of the Floyd fight had only fought at 135 twice! After the Floyd fight he went back down to 135 for at least two more fights. The fight was contracted at a catchweight of 144 to give the appearance of compromise and “fairness”; close to the fight Floyd opted to pay JMM 600k and not even attempt to make the 144 weight. At this point in Floyd’s career it was accepted by all knowledgeable fans that he would not risk any fights in which he might lose. Gone were the days of challenging himself against the likes of his top ranked competitors and proving in the ring that he was a legit ATG fighter. Hence why he fought Baldomir, Judah and Ricky Hatton at welterweight but avoided Mosley, Cotto and most infamously Williams and Margarito and “retired”. When those 4 men had beaten themselves up and knocked each other out of contention he “unretired”. He called Pacquiao a midget...and then accused him of being on steroids! These are the reasons why very few reasonable fans consider his victory over JMM a great win.
When you are the popular fighter, the draw, bringing the money into the sport , you are in a position to tell the sport of boxing "to jump" , with it responding " how high? " , ….. but some here just do not get it .. I'll fight you if I want to or when I want to or you do not get paid … He learned that one from SRL, lol
I picked Whitaker as I think he beat better opposition and nearly all of his best wins came against guys in there prime including the JCC robbery compared to Mayweather who beat a lot of big names who were in the back end of there career
Ok but he doesn't have to be the best there ever was to be better than Whitaker. Pea has some better names on his record. I think Floyd was sharper offensively. Biggest difference is longevity and consistantcy.
Floyd fought in a relatively weaker era compared to Whitaker and he never faced a guy like Chavez Sr. Say what you want about Cotto or Judah or whatever, none were as tough as Julio.
Look at the Chavez fight a little closer and some of the luster comes off of it. Chavez was a little shopworn by 93. He had waited for Taylor to stop hiding from the rematch...kept fighting. Mostly they made Julio fight at Welterweight. He was never effective that high.
Where did I mention anything about the best ever? My point in a nutshell is how a undefeated record can be deceiving. Especially when considering the level of competition and when that competition was fought. Nothing about "Best Ever". In that comment.
The talk about May being off 2 years is a bit overblown. May always kept in shape and was still sparring pretty regularly. So when it was time to come back, it wasn't like he was out of shape and badly overweight. But more importantly, he was accustomed to the weight he "came back" to fight at, while Marquez, this weight was completely foreign to him. This makes a difference imo. I'm not sure of the example that would meet all the criteria you specified, but jumps in weight make a big difference. Foster was revered, and a brutal LHW, but when he moved up to HW and faced an excellent fighter, he got beaten easily. Dick Tiger was another great fighter in his own right, and look what happened when he jumped out to face foster, easily beaten. Going up multiple division matters, that's why we have them. So it's impressive in a sense, but not as impressive as you seem to make it out to be imo It mattes because when you're dealing with great fighters small intangibles or variables make the difference. The fact that Pea had no issue fighting the best fighters around, while they were at their best, while he wasn't, tells me Whitaker had a little more desire and will to face the best. Which in turn should tell us who had more belief in their abilities and willingness to put it on the line. Which in turn can tells us even more stuff. So it only matters in that respect, when separating great fighters Styles make fights??? So Hoya had a better style for May than he did for Pea? You'll have to explain that one for me a little more. Weight drained as in he was no longer the active fighter he was. Just two fights prior he was fighting against Hopkins at MW. Then came back to down to fight Mayorga, and if I remember correctly, struggled a bit to make that weight again being that he wasn't an active fighter anymore like in days past. Same thing with fighting May, that happened a year after Mayorga, where again he put on weight between fights. This is VASTLY different to the condition Hoya was in to face Pea, they are night and day, which make the results all the more poignant.
Whitaker's resume: This content is protected Azumah Nelson Jose Luis Ramirez Buddy McGirt Julio Cesar Vazquez Roger Mayweather Vazquez or Roger wouldn't be top 5 wins on Floyd's resume. Floyd's resume: This content is protected Jose Luis Castillo This content is protected Ricky Hatton Canelo Alvarez Juan Manuel Marquez Diego Corrales Mosley, Hernandez, De La Hoya were past their prime but it wasn't Floyd's fault. Floyd wanted to fight Mosley when he was at 135 but Mosley went for Oscar instead. The only other time they could've fought was when they actually fought. Mosley went from 135 to 147 overnight (Tacos and Nachos. All natural) and Floyd had to catchup. Floyd fought Oscar at 154 even though he had no business fighting at 154. Floyd was a super lightweight when he fought Oscar. People only wanna talk about the Marquez fight because Floyd forced Marquez to move up 2 weight classes. Floyd himself did that when he fought Castillo, De La Hoya, Canelo. Castillo rehydrated to 147.5 lbs and Floyd was 138.5 lbs on fight night. That's 9 lbs which is similar to a super FW vs super LW. No one brings up the size difference when they talk about the Castillo "robbery". People that are shitting on Floyd's win over Marquez are the same people who'd call Louis-Conn a great win. Or Hagler-Duran, Monzon-Napoles, McLarnin-Canzoneri/Ambers, Charles-Burley. Any win that has black and white, grainy ass footage. Hippocrits. Hernandez was Floyd's coming out party. He was the best super featherweight and Floyd dominated him at the age of 21. Maybe he should've fought him straight outta the Olympics. Pacquiao and Cotto are the only fighters Floyd could've fought in their primes but didn't/couldn't. **** TR Chavez and Nelson moved up in weight to fight Whitaker. These are Whitaker's biggest wins and Whitaker was naturally bigger than both. Chavez was also past his prime when he fought Whitaker while Whitaker was in his prime. Pacquiao win > Chavez win: Chavez was undefeated but he had never fought at 147 before. He wasn't in his prime at the time. Whitaker beat Chavez. Chavez went back to his natural weight and lost to Frankie Randall a few months after the Whitaker fight. Pacquiao had been KO'd by Marquez but that remains the only blemish on Pacquiao's resume in almost 15 years. Along with his loss to Floyd. After losing to Floyd, Pacquiao beat Bradley who was a top 10 p4p fighter at the time. Pacquiao also beat Thurman a month ago. People try to overlook the Pacquiao win as if him getting KO'd by Marquez nullifies everything else he accomplished. He hasn't been dropped since. Eat that. I also think Pacquiao was a greater fighter than Chavez. Most definitely. After that Whitaker's best win is Nelson. An ATG fighter who was in his prime but he wasn't a lightweight. That's still a great win and better than most of Floyd's wins. After Chavez and Nelson, we got McGirt, Ramirez, Vazquez, and Roger. I'd take: McGirt > Mosley (old and ugly) Canelo > Vazquez Castillo > Ramirez (had seen better days) Hernandez > Roger (nothing but chin) We're still left with Cotto, Hatton, Corrales, Marquez, and Oscar on Floyd's resume. Whitaker's 2nd tier wins are guys like Haugen, Nazario, Pendleton, Jones, Paez. Floyd's 2nd tier wins are Judah, Guerrero, Maidana, Ortiz, Manfredy, Gatti, Chavez. Floyd's resume is simply superior. Floyd's resume is one of the best in modern era. Whitaker's isn't. I like Whitaker too but I don't see how anyone can make a case for him being the greater fighter. All you can do is point fingers at Floyd's resume but that doesn't really enhance Whitaker's resume. There isn't much that separates Floyd and Pernell h2h though. They were two of the best fighters that I've seen. But in terms of resume, Floyd takes it. Without a doubt. Pernell's career was pretty much over after the Oscar fight. He was on top for about 8 years ('89-'97). Floyd won his first title in 1998 and he was still a champ in 2015. You have to give him credit for his commitment and longevity. His longevity was so remarkable that no one ever mentions his age or decline when they talk about his fights. The guy had no legs when he fought Maidana. He was 37 years old fighting a guy who outweighed him by 15 lbs on fight night and was also a ****in lunatic. Floyd was 36 when he fought Canelo and schooled him. But Canelo was a ****in child apparently. His size advantage didn't matter after he got schooled. Floyd was supposed to wait for him to mature. It's funny cuz I see a lot of praise thrown Salvador's way for his win over Nelson. And rightfully so because Nelson went on to become such a great fighter. Even though Sal was the one who was in his prime and Nelson wasn't. Sal was a champion, Nelson was a nobody. Both were the same weight. Still an excellent win. Floyd was 36 and past his prime; Canelo was 23 and he was the best junior middleweight in the world when Floyd fought him. Canelo weighed 165 compared to Floyd's 150 on fight night. EASY MONEYYYY. Bottomline: Floyd was a greater fighter than Whitaker.
whitaker has the better resume.He beat Chavez cleanly.the same can’ t be said of Floyd’s fight with castillo
There is so much wrong with this post I'm not sure where to begin. First, the Pac win is NOT better than the Chavez win, and frankly it's not all that close. Pac was further past his best weight for that fight than Chavez was his best weight(thoughpac seemed to move up better higher because of his speed an explosiveness), plus Chavez was undefeated, while Pac as we know was not. Then when you factor in Pac's injury, they aren't close. The chavez win is ahead. Canelo was NOT a better win than Vasquez. Canelo THEN was not the fighter he has now become. He was a deer in the headlights and that was PLAINLY obvious to all that witnessed that fight. People versed or not versed could tell Canelo was gun shy and not ready for that type of fight. Look how his last 5 fights since, he's more aggressive and sure of his skills. He'll going in stalker mode, in aggressive counter punching mode... he'll commit. You saw NONE of that against May, nothing. You can't give May credit for beating THAT version of Canelo and acting like it's current Canelo, it's not. The Vasquez than Whitaker beat is better than the Canelo May fought. You might want to do a little studying on Vasquez, he had quite a little win streak going on there, and you seem to think he was some so so fighter. Hernandez better than Roger, nah, don't see that. What makes you believe this? What's more, it matter again WHEN they fought them. Whitaker fought Roger when he was relatively green, and in his what, like 11th pro fight. That's earlier than May fought Hernandez. Again, Whitaker had more confidence in his abilities and was willing to put it on the line to prove it much more than May was. That is that extra something that separates great fighters. If you believe in yourself and believe you're the best, you act like it, and follow through with it. Whitaker wasn't scared to face the undefeated Chavez he sought the bout. I don't think May would've. Whitaker, past his best took on a PRIME Oscar because he wanted the test. Even further past his best he took on a PRIME Trinidad, which is league above anybody Floyd has fought. Floyd would've NEVER gotten in the ring with THAT Oscar or Felix. No way, you know it, I know it. Which says what, again, who had more confidence is their greatness? I should be clear that man was Whitaker. Did you ever seen Whitaker put in silly clauses about weight and what their foe could weigh? May did this on numerous occasions. Marquez, Hoya, Canelo etc etc. I can NEVER remember Whitaker ever putting those same catch weight or trying to drain his foe. Ever. What does that tell us? Again, who had more confidence in their abilities and were willing to put it on the line. Whitaker. I'm curious... who on May resume, in the condition he fought them do you put ahead of McGirt, Nelson, Hoya and Chavez. I'm not just talking names... I'm talking comparing the fighters conditions when each fought them. List the fighters May fought better than the above so I can see where your coming from.
