do you believe arum and hearns logic of marinating fights is outdated? In this day and age was there any need for the in between fights? Surely wilder fury and Joshua should just fight each other. Make mega bucks and not have to fight on as long ? Ruiz banged out josh, wallin has given fury a very damaging eye injury and wilder is not guaranteed to beat Ortiz. I just don’t understand the logic of those fights when the public demand was there for the big ones...
Well these nothing fights seem to be working out for them.... Wilder’s next, by this time next year know one will care about the big three because there will be no big three
Sometimes it is warranted if the participants aren't well known, but in the case of Joshua, Fury and Wilder, it was unnecessary. At the end of the day, a lot of times promoters say this they just want to make more money with easier fights beforehand. Once they have done this, they will cash out with the big fight. The problem it brings is if one fighter gets beat before hand. I know Arum has mentioned before that he regretted marinating Juanma Lopez and Gamboa for so long as Juanma ended up losing (I think to Salido). In the case of Joshua, Wilder and Fury; clearly Joshua is the main money maker, by far. However, if he loses the rematch against Ruiz, it could seriously dent the earnings from a Joshua v Fury and Joshua v Wilder fight. These marination fights against less than stellar fighters will also hurt a fighters legacy. These days the top guys fight twice a year at best. If you waste 18-24 months building a fight against a fellow elite opponent, you are wasting what few precious years a fighter gets in prime at world level. Factor in how long it takes to get to world level, then elite level, rebuilding after a loss (as all but a rare few go an entire career undefeated), then an elite fighter may only fight one or two truly elite opponents throughout their career.
The first Fury-Wilder fight only did 325k buys. A lot more people in America now know who Tyson Fury is.
An interesting point you raised in the OP, surely it is better to fast track and finish up early. I agree entirely. I would like most fighters to be able to get out of the game in their early 30s. Not a fan of guys boxing on much deeper than that, for health reasons obviously, also fights get marinated far too long (pac floyd etc). Theres this trend now with these Euros staying in the amateurs for literally 15 years then turning pro around 30. Imo thats when they should be thinking about wrapping up, not STARTING their pro careers. Like i say personal preference but the human body is nowhere near as resiliant at 40 as it is at 25. They need to change the system to stsrt shifting towards this sport being more of a young mans game and put a pension in place that you start getting if you retire and can kick in at around 35.
I like to see the best fight the best at any level and am amazed how many experienced fighters take a series of essentially tick over fights sometimes for little money. I’d like to see a rule where a fighter is not allowed to fight a fighter more than 30 places in the rankings below him unless he’s had less than 10 fights or he’s coming off a loss. It’ll never happen as the rankings are manipulated but I do think even casuals are becoming wise to the fighters having less meaningful fights in their careers.
We’ve got Manny Pac, Golovkin, Kovalev, Donaire, Pascal, Povetkin, Pulev etc all still smashing the younger lads up and all still looking dangerous. We had Foreman, Hopkins, Duran, Klitschko, Holyfield etc in recent (last 30 odd years) still winning world titles in their mid 30’s. Peaks all come at different times. You’re absolutely correct in saying the peak years physically are around mid 20s to early 30s but the real intelligent fighters just keep on improving despite their decline in athleticism.
I do think it’s outdated. Joshua has fell flat on his face, Wilder and Fury weren’t massive but the aftermath of it and the knockdown/rise up went viral and had every one talking about it. There was no better time to capitalise on a rematch IMO. It’s a risky business, especially when all 3 of them are infallible.
This is the gamble promoters take, go back a year or so and you would’ve expected on paper it to be a big unification between AJ and Wilder in December this year. Instead a fat out of shape fury managed to give wilder the fight of his life enough to warrant a rematch, meanwhile Ruiz jr who was a last minute replacement for miller throws another spanner in the works by stopping AJ Wilder now has two fights to get through, ok the Ortiz fight imo will be easier than the 1st fight as he’s only gotten older since then and I don’t see him adjusting enough to get the upset, meanwhile wilder has to wait for fury’s bad cut to heal which may well come back to haunt him, it wouldn’t surprise me if it gets popped open again two weeks before the rematch or during it. On a side note we saw some urgency from fury yesterday because of that cut and he couldn’t put wallin away so I can’t see him ever getting wilder out of there. And then AJ beating Ruiz is no given, he really has a huge amount of pressure on him going into this fight, he can definitely beat Ruiz if he sticks to the game plan and keeps things long, if AJ comes in light at the weigh in we know he’s there to give Ruiz the run around and possibly go for the late stoppage but still having one eye on those big fights with wilder and fury could be a mistake.
Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn’t. Also, not every fight can be a super fight, so you need to factor in who the opponents should be when they’re not against the elite. This is where Fury falls flat. He’s got one elite win, same as Joshua, (and I’d say Wilder has none), but in an era when the next level is Povetkin, Pulev, Whyte, Ortiz and so on, he’s fought none of them. The risk you take is a loss against someone totally unheralded. That’s not happened, but he’s picked up a nasty looking injury against a nobody which could conceivably mean he’s out of the ring for ages. A lot of momentum has been lost.
Wilder should've been a HUGE name in american sport before the Fury fight. He wasn't. Thats why its taking time for fights.
I think it's too late for Wilder. The boxing landscape really has moved on I think. You get huge stars in America, but they're relatively few and far between. It's like Wilder and Fury are just expecting some massive turnaround to happen in US-based boxing which will mean their eventual rematch will earn them both a fortune. But based on what? Fury's bum tour is doing terrible business. Wilder's PPV debut fell pretty flat and now he's not on it anymore. They seem like a band who have only played small venues before delaying the next album time and time again in the hope that the delays eventually mean they're playing stadiums. People don't like it, but all roads still lead to Joshua even after he lost. That fight being in Saudi is purely, 100% a financial decision, regardless what total nonsense people say about expanding the sport and so on. But that proves the finances are their to effectively pay top whack for Joshua, even after he lost.
How is Wilder fighting Brazaelle and Ortiz 2 going to make him any bigger a name?? How is Fury fishing two no-names and on PPV , going to make him any bigger too?? They're all at the level where I can't see how any other option than them fighting each other in a round-robbin is going to make any more financial sense - and pro boxing is all about money. Letting fights marinade is outdated. Old promoters with old ways.
Fury still made a lot of money for the Wallin fight so while it's not made him the next Floyd he's still done nicely out of it and that's why they keep delaying the big fights. I dont think i've heard the term linial champion thrown around so much as when Fury is in fight week. Its back fired a bit recently but the promoters especially are happy to take the risk. One defeat in a soft touch fight kind fight doesn't actually derail the money train. It just gives them a rematch for more $ and then the big fight is still there. If AJ gets past Ruiz the Wilder fight still does big numbers. Same for Fury
A defeat to a guy like Ruiz is a bit different to a defeat to a guy like Wallin. One was totally unknown and came in with no real wins of any serious credit, whereas Ruiz was arguably unlucky not to have beaten Parker who took Joshua the distance. I’m not sure Fury is big enough to be this money making machine some have suggested. All along my opinion has been that Arum knows Joshua v Fury does massive money and he wants some. That doesn’t mean Fury v some Swedish nobody does the same. It manifestly doesn’t.
