Who could get up after that Shavers' right hand which knocked Holmes down?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Boxing2019, Sep 11, 2019.



  1. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    Even at the lower level. I don't blame Shavers for not one-shotting Holmes or Ali, but why couldn't he do so against the numerous ham n' eggers he feasted on? Why did he need dozens of punches and multiple knockdowns to stop this level of opposition?
     
  2. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What I meant is, there are testimonies from some seriously excellent fighters, confirming it.
     
  3. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Riiiiight (cracking up)

    I never liked Sugar, and thought his ranking of Holmes was pretty ignorant (Holmes himself was pretty aggravated over it, and understandably so).
     
  4. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    To paraphrase Cosell (which I don't typically like doing): Shavers wasn't exactly the best fighter, my friend. He was a super dangerous opponent (and yeah I completely see him knocking out someone like the pre-Steward Lewis with an overhand) but he was far from a completely adequate boxer. He had poor stamina, and his chin was DEFINITELY not iron.
     
  5. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Well.. prime Shavers came about when there weren't five different world titles.

    I should mention, had Earnie got the title shot before Holmes against Norton Earnie would have been champ.
     
  6. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    Assuming you can believe them, then their testimonies only carry weight among their common opponents and have no bearing on anyone that came before and since. Ali or Holmes saying Shavers was the hardest puncher they ever fought doesn't mean squat regarding someone like Tua or Wilder because they never fought them.
     
  7. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    Wilder is also a poor fighter, but he has the knockouts to seriously give weight to his standing as a one-shot guy. Shavers obviously wasn't so poor that he couldn't beat scrubs or journeymen or even world-class guys like Norton, yet we've never seen him knock anyone completely unconscious with a single shot. I don't mean knocked down for a ten count like Jimmy Ellis but completely OUT, flat on the canvas, not moving, audience thinking they're dead kind of out. Any arguments for him being the greatest one-punch puncher in boxing are completely baseless.
     
  8. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Again, all respect but there are a lot of people who believe such face-to-face testimonies are gold. What other evidence do you really need?

    My friend, it appears to me that you just don't like Shavers and there's nothing wrong with that.

    I'll believe what Ali said, and he said it with utmost, eye-contact certainly to a large studio audience (and millions of people watching at home) way before I believe anything you say on the matter.

    Absolutely no offense intended.
     
  9. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    That doesn't make any sense. That kind of knockout is rarer than stoppages (I think you know that).

    And of course I count the Ellis as a knockout, how couldn't you? He was done. You don't have to be kod to be knocked out, just unable to continue. Ellis was going nappy time either way.
     
  10. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm about done here. I respect everyone's opinions here, but Shavers imo remains the greatest puncher the heavyweight division has ever seen. The Ali fight, Holmes II, Norton, Ellis, etc all prove that.

    If you disagree more power to you. I don't, and won't.
     
  11. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    You don't seem to have got my point.

    Whether or not you believe these testimonies, and let's say that you do, has NO RELEVANCE to anyone outside of that era. The most you could say would be that Shavers was the hardest puncher of his time, but that says nothing of any other era where those common opponents were not active.

    You're wrong. I don't dislike Shavers. I dislike the myth that's been built up around him regarding his otherworldly punching power. He was a hard puncher that got a lot of guys' respect. That doesn't need to be spun into anything that it's not.
     
  12. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Oooh, thanks for the correction. Excellent point. And I can't exactly blame you for being weary of the ball-hugging.
     
  13. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    Of course it's rare, which is why fighters who achieve it more than once need to be rated so highly. You want to hold Shavers to such a high standard you better be prepared to back it up.

    I never said the Ellis KO wasn't a knockout. I'm saying it wasn't a knockout on par with any of the truly devastating punchers. Like I said above, you want to rate Shavers as the hardest puncher of all time he needs to have these types of KOs on his resume.
     
  14. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I think your point is quite valid now, I just needed the elucidation. Thanks.
     
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  15. It's Ovah

    It's Ovah I'm your huckleberry, that's just mah game Full Member

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    You can think that, and I won't force you to change your mind, but I hope you now understand why others might not share your opinion, and why.