It's not hate, for the most part. Most of it is truth that people don't want to accept Is it false that Rocky's best wins have an average weight of 195.5lbs? No, it's not. Is it false that Rocky's best wins have an average age of 36.25? No, it's not. Is it false to say that Rocky's pre title career was very, very unimpressive? No, it's not. Is it also not false to say that Rocky had bad balance, short arms, paper skin, poor footwork, poor defence, was very small for a heavyweight.
Broke it down previously but why not again. Marciano closes the distance using his crouch technique and other methods (excellent at closing the gap). He negates Holmes jab with constant over hand counters. He definitely loses the first couple of rounds but as the fight wears on Marciano’s timing improves and as it goes on his stamina superiority starts showing itself. Everyone Holmes starts throwing that jab Marciano comes over the top with a right. Occasionally leads with a left. Holmes starts to tire around round 6 as Marciano starts to find the range more. Every round it becomes more clear after that Marciano’s getting the better. Eventually due to constant aggression and affective power punching Holmes goes down in 11. He gets back up and is stopped rather quickly in the 12.
How? Don't you think Holmes would time Marciano's slow overhands? Do you think his reach would make this actually work? Coz it didn't against Louis, who was smaller, slower, older and more fragile. Again, does this really happen? Holmes has much better feet and defence than anyone who Rocky beat. And you say that like Holmes only has one punch, his cross and uppercut were both stellar. A walk forward agressive fighter like Rocky who crouches low would be like shooting fish in a barrel for Larry and his uppercuts. Rocky would be hobbling right into Larry's cross as well, whilst Larry's jab would be carving up Marciano's face with ease. Holmes at 41 years of age wasn't tiring against Ray Mercer, who was more physical, bigger, hit harder and had better footwork than Rocky did. I highly doubt he'd be tiring by 6 against Rocky. This is a guy who couldn't stop a past prime Ezzard Charles at HW... This isn't happening to Larry. If Larry goes down, he definitely gets back up. And when he did who ever was across the ring was in trouble. It was like his firey heart took over and started burning everything.
I agree with everything that you said, I just don't see it as having the same implications as you do!
Holmes wasn’t as a good a boxer as Walcott or Moore or EC he just had a better chin and some better tools then they did. Which goes far in the HW division. There were fights where Holmes looked exhausted and he took rounds off. You think Marciano is going to give him a round off like say Norton? And the this guy finished that one and this and that is really a bad argument in boxing because styles make the fights. Holmes couldn’t finish Shavers their first fight while Quarry took him out in a round. That doesn’t diminish Holmes in anyway. Or shouldn’t. So why attack Marciano for foolish things? Especially when he Knocked out six of seven opponents in title fights. Holmes sets up his other weapons off the jab that’s why he won’t be as affective because Marciano will neutralize it. Louis jab was a non factor in the fight other then annoying him slightly in the first two rounds. If you actually watch the fight it’s affects look almost non existent. If Marciano didn’t say it annoyed him slightly you’d probably never know. Also Marciano was not slow. Idk where that bs comes from. Probably from comments from Walcott or was it Moore? But he certainly doesn’t look all that slow. He said obviously not Tyson Patterson Ali speed but he’s def not slow. His awkward shots even if seen coming Holmes wouldn’t stop it because but Holmes HAS to punch down to connect. I want you to stop reading stand up and throw a proper jab downward and tell me what happens?....you leave your left side wayyy open see. Marciano knew this Frazier knew this and so did Tyson and they very affectiveky practiced over hand counters.
I wonder if some people here think that we should select title challengers, by comparing the paper stats of all of the fighters ranked in the top ten, and picking the one that looks most impressive in terms of height, reach, weight and age! That seems to be how they evaluate the worth of a contender!
He as definitely better than Walcott. And he was definitely better than the versions of them that fought Marciano. The Norton fight was when Holmes wasted half of his energy dancing around and not doing anything. At his peak he wasn't doing that and didn't look tired at all. And those rounds that Holmes takes off aren't going to make him lose. He'd lose the rounds, not the fight. Yes, I'm aware. But the fact still stands the guy failed to stop a former light heavyweight, who was definitely chinny after what Walcott did to him. And it's not like Charles was in complete survival mode, he still threw back and got hit. Marciano just couldn't knock him out. I'm not attacking Marciano for these things. I'm saying that if he failed to KO a light heavyweight why is it logical to pick him to KO a fighter like Holmes. His world title opposition was pathetic considering people give him a top 3 HW spot. There are plenty of HWs who would stop all of them. No one that size who's slower is neutralising Holmes's jab. It's not happening. And who's jab did he neutralise? Were they on Holmes's level? Were they his size? No and No. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that Marciano neutralises Holmes's jab. The cuts and swelling say otherwise. Slow is the wrong word. Slower, is more fitting. Holmes threw downwards most of his career. And he got on fine. Marciano missed a lot of Overhands against Louis, if the Brown Bomber wasn't pushing 40 he'd have punished him. Holmes wouldn't be pushing 40 and so would punish him.
Purely from a standpoint of technique, do you think that Holmes was better than Walcott, Charles and Moore? Forget who was the better fighter, who represented the more sublime display of boxing technique?
He was faster,stronger , younger , bigger ,with a better chin,longer reach,greater powers of recovery and a much better jab.I'd say that's a pretty good start! And no, he wouldn't be getting beat by Rex Layne!
Somewhere Ray Mercer is smiling. He was just given all this ability and skill he never had in reality. He was nothing like Rocky stylewise, he had no clue how to attack a boxer. Not even sure he hit harder Marciano. I agree with the Holmes pick but not an apples to apples comparison.
Why does Holmes start to tire ,where is the evidence this would happen? Marciano couldn't negate Louis' slower jab, why would he be successful against the faster, longer jab of Holmes? What proof have you that Marciano has more stamina than Holmes? Do you think Holmes would have trouble outlasting ; A 37years old Louis? A 38years old Walcott? A 39 /40 years old 188lbs Moore? A punchless 185lbs Lastarza? A fat glandular case Cokkell? A high mileage 33years old 188lbs Charles? You are taking an awful lot on trust! Holmes went the distance with big class heavyweights when he was in his 40's!
