Better top 5 wins? Mayweather or Ward?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by tinman, Sep 17, 2019.



  1. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    That's not how you compare wins.

    Manny isn't even Floyd's best win.
     
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  2. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    Nonsense.

    What about the weight issue?

    How can deliberately coming in over weight and beating JMM top every win of Ward's?

    How can it be more impressive than where Ward moved up to stop a prime LHW in Kovalev?
     
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  3. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    Nonsense.

    In a historical sense, sure. But that's not how you compare wins.

    Apply context.

    Manny isn't even Floyd's best win.
     
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  4. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    I just dont think most people would agree that Hatton is Mayweathers third best win though. I see no reason to rate that Hatton over the Cotto that would go on to fight Canelo on practically even terms. I actually dont even see the basis for rating him above even a past prime Pac or a 'green' Canelo. I think the Hatton win being put at 3 is overrating it.

    So... things like this become tricky when different people have such differing perspectives.
     
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  5. tinman

    tinman VIP Member Full Member

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    The way some of these guys dismiss Ward's fights with top level guys in their prime is strange to me. It doesn't compute in my brain. We complain all the time about fighters ducking the top guys or waiting until they're over the hill. But when Ward actually fights the best fighters people don't even recognize.

    Well then, if that's the case why even fight anybody with a pulse???
     
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  6. tinman

    tinman VIP Member Full Member

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    Sure I see what you're saying. But even a war torn Cotto isn't as good as Kessler or Froch in their prime. Nor is a green Canelo.
     
  7. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    Are you serious?

    Weight is nothing in this context.

    Reach is what you should be focusing on.

    Floyd has long arms and a huge reach. His reach is bigger than some JMW's-MW's.

    At 72", Floyd has a bigger reach than Gennady Golovkin.

    It was Floyd's biggest asset, which gave him huge advantages with his style.

    Hatton's weight was irrelevant. The heavier Ricky was, the less he performed. He only took the fight at WW because he couldn't get the fight at LWW.

    Hatton's reach was only 65"

    Hatton was a come forward fighter who relied on stamina to work up close.

    Yes, it was a stylistic match up that greatly favoured Floyd.

    Floyd's win over Oscar was much more impressive.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  8. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    Is he though?

    Take into account the weight, and the fact that Ward easily beat Froch despite having a double fracture of his hand.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  9. tinman

    tinman VIP Member Full Member

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    Floyd's victory over DLH was impressive. I just gave the slight nod to Hatton being a better win because Oscar had been noticeably faded. Oscar from 1999-2002 would have been favored over Mayweather and for good reason. His jab, height, reach and skill are going to be a problem. A 75% Oscar gave Mayweather issues with his jab and size.
     
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  10. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    There's no way that Floyd's wins over Manny and Ricky were better than Ward's wins over Kovalev.

    Manny was clearly injured. Clearly. Then there's the IV controversy.

    Hatton was never a WW and he gave up 7-8" in reach. He also wasn't an elite fighter in my opinion.

    Floyd's wins over Oscar eclipse both of those.

    Even though Oscar was past his best, he was a much tougher proposition than what Ricky was. Oscar was an elite boxer and he completely outsized Floyd in height, reach and weight.

    Ward's wins over Kovalev were very impressive. Ward had been inactive, and he moved up in weight to fight a feared LHW who was in his prime. Again, a much tougher proposition than what Floyd faced when fighting a guy like Ricky Hatton.
     
  11. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    Every factor needs taking into account in order for an objective discussion to take place.

    IMO, Oscar was Floyd's best win. Like you say, Oscar was coming off of a good win, and Floyd was never really a JMW. Oscar completely outsized him in height, reach and weight. But despite that, people will rightly say that Oscar was faded.

    Regarding Froch, you have to note that Ward beat him pretty easily despite him having a fractured hand. And then straight afterwards, Froch smashed Bute.

    It's an interesting debate.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2019
  12. Loudon

    Loudon VIP Member Full Member

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    How can the win over Maidana rate so highly?
     
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  13. kirk

    kirk l l l Staff Member

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    I dont know man, that same war torn Cotto went on to fight almost on even terms with a fairly prime Canelo near middleweight, almost three years later.

    But idk... maybe youre right, I'll have to analyze it a bit more. I guess I've always thought of Kessler as a bit overrated... not sure if thats really justified though.

    I will give the subject another look. Thanks.
     
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  14. NoNeck

    NoNeck Pugilist Specialist Full Member

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    That's absurd.

    I'm guessing you don't give Hearns credit at welter or 154.

    We can rest assured that you've never boxed if you don't understand why weightclasses exist.
     
  15. RingKing75

    RingKing75 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    I find it hilarious how before the Pac fight people were trashing Thurman saying how overrated he was and how he got gift decisions against Garcia and Porter and will get destroyed by Spence and Crawford but as soon as Pac beat him its all about the was the #1 WW and this legitimizes FlIVds win over Manny lol
     
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