Canizales via stoppage, too much speed, angles and precision for Medel, who I've never regarded highly
I don’t question your pick although I find it unlikely that Canizales would stop him. I do think this would be close and at their best I go with Medel...but Orlando was more consistent and could win in his own right... I guess my question is how can you not regard Medel highly? What led you to that summation. By the way although I mean this with sincere respect I am genuinely curious as to how you could not regard him highly?
You don't regard him highly? He has wins over Harada (KO), Pimental and McGowan (who he KOd). He also has solid wins like Seki, Barrios, Eloy Sanchez. And a few more strong contenders, too. He also proved his skill in his loss to Jofre in a war. All these men are quite clearly better than any of Canizales wins, despite his H2H talent. The reason I made this is cause I think Medel is very underrated. He competed in one of the strongest eras of the division. He was inconsistent, but his record only became really spotty after the Harada rematch, which he was basically near shot after. He was a skilled and powerful counter puncher, who managed to repeatedly catch and hurt Harada, who wasn't' yet at his peak but was already very developed and not far off. I think this is a very interesting match up for the aggressive Canizales. Medel wouldn't let him just work around him at his pleasure like some of his defenses. He could make his aggression, and sometimes inconsistent mindset, work very well against him at his best.
Pretty much summarized my feelings here, though perhaps I was being rough on Medel. Its true that he was a part of arguably the strongest bantam division ever
Medel wasn't really even that inconsistent at his peak tbh. rough has mentioned a few of his wins and he also beat Elias, Esparza (who also beat Harada in Japan), Toluco Lopez, Yaoita, Marques, Pina, Hawkins, Guerrero etc. And he drew with Chucho Castillo and lost by close decision to Rose when past his best. Even Olivares approached the faded version with great respect and caution, which was how he needed to be fought. He had a pretty rough start and stuck around too long at the end, but at his best he was only really beaten one sidedly by Jofre in the rematch after having taken Eder to the edge of the abyss in their first fight. He dropped a clear decision to Boots Munroe not long before that but was still fairly consistent. He seems to have been a lazy bugger though, very talented and skilled but with a half-arsed approach unless he was in against the best, then he usually showed up and got out the big guns. Brilliant, very dangerous fighter at his best. I thought the rematch with Harada was damn close and we know what happened the first time. It's possibly the best ever win by a Mexican fighter. He nearly had the great little man out in the last round of that rematch too, he just left it too late. His record against the best dwarfs Orlando's by some way, though if Canizales fought the right sort of mobile counter-punching fight and used his great footwork he'd probably stand a good chance. It's all what ifs with Canizales. He probably had the tools to defeat anyone on his best day, but we'll never know. Medel would've been the best bantam he'd have faced by quite some distance, and he certainly looked flat and uninspiring against lesser fighters than Medel.
Great Post tin ribs. Thsts the reason I can't think of Canizales to highly, even though he's on of my favourites to watch aesthetically. All what ifs.
Honestly, that very much may be the case. I haven't watched him much though, but I know he beat Sandoval.
Regarding Jose Medel. He was a monster against the ropes. If anyone wants to watch one of the most dangerous counter-punchers in action, watch Medel v Pimental. Pimental was the banger, but you could actually see his tentativeness after tasting some of the bombs Medel lands while countering off the ropes. Nothing disparaging to say about Orlando, but I would automatically pick Medel over him on what I know of and what I have seen on both fighters.
That’s one of the things I noticed watching Jofre and Medel (been about a year since I watched the Pimental fight...but both medal and Jofre would drive the other to the ropes, but once there they were both so calm and composed almost like they were more comfortable fighting from a back to the ropes position.
Medel was indeed monstrous at fighting off the ropes, a right sneaky *******. Mooresque in the way he set traps and sprung them, he nearly took McGowan's head off in the first round too. Brilliant at punching from nowhere with disguise and fuse-tripping power in either hand. Philly mentioned how relaxed he usually looked with his back to the ropes and he was a relaxed fighter in general, very seasoned and at ease against a wide variety of good to great fighters with different styles. The type of fighter where you could see the cogs turning in his mind. He could be too relaxed though, sometimes, trying too hard to walk people into his bear traps when he was very capable of leading and dictating the fight at ring centre. It probably cost him a few times in his career, like against Monroe, and he got too overconfident on the ropes against the excellent Efren Torres, unusually having the tables turned on him with a sneak punch. That was when he was past it though, in fairness. I'd love it if the Becerra fights were out there somewhere. They were both pre-prime and only up and comers but it'd be interesting to see if Becerra actually deserved all three decisions, he was a popular fighter and the more established name where Medel was still unknown. Both great cerebral counter punchers, it's not hard to imagine Becerra having the edge, but a win over him would strengthen Medel's standing even more. That's another thing, Medel incurred a lot of his decision losses on the road to house fighters; I'd be willing to bet that a few of those losses were dodgy or controversial, though obviously I don't have much proof.
I would go as far to say that Canizales 'sparring' with 115lbs champ Katsuya Onizuka was better than quite a few of his defenses.
