Looking at the film there is no way Williams was 6'2 (boxrec). Liston was 6'1 and williams looks at least a full 2 inches taller.
In his fight with Ali whoever is calling the fight (I don’t recognize his voice from any other period footage) mentions both are 6’3”.
Liston was a big man with very long arms but height wise I think he was closer to 6’ than 6’1”. You are correct, Williams was taller.
Alex Miteff, Holman And Roger Rischer got knocked out by everyone half decent they fought anyway. I think Brian London knocked out Rischer quicker than Williams did. Interestingly Both Brian and Cleveland lasted three rounds against Muhammad Ali. Williams did not knockout some guys that others did. Take Frankie Daniels. He lasted the distance with Williams one fight earlier Liston beat Daniels in one round. Ingemar Johansson flattens Machen in one round. Years later Machen draws with Williams. There are a lot of examples like this. Terry Daniels lasted a few rounds with Frazier. Full distance with Williams etc etc. Kene Simmons lasted the distance, Marciano stopped him. Omilo Agramante is another guy he didn’t knockout. Wallcot did. It’s really quite a fascinating study of how long Williams career was. However, Williams really did a job on the third rate unknown guys. His knockouts of graveyard Walters, Baby Booze And Candy “ass” McDaniels were apparently spectacular.
That's straightforwardly untrue. Miteff had beaten or gone the distance with Zora Folley, Eddie Machen, Nino Valdes, Henry Cooper, George Chuvalo. Holman had beaten or gone the distance with Bob Baker, Bob Satterfield, Nino Valdes, Elmer Ray, Cesar Brion, Clarence Henry. Rischer's only loss in 6 years coming up to the Williams fight was a decision to Eddie Machen.
All those I mentioned were ranked heavyweights at one time or another therefore they were at least "good fighters". Bull **** argument. Holman was not stopped by, Charlesx2,Peaks,Brion,Mederos,Agramonte,Thompson,Henry,Ray. Mitteff was not stopped by , Cooper,Machen,Chuvalo,Bethea,Besmanoff ,Folley,Valdes,Holman. Rischer was not stopped by,Machen,Folley,Johnson,Lincoln,Cooper,Spencer,Clark. Agramonte was not stopped by,Louisx2,Holman,Dunlap,Henryx2. Williams was 38 and washed up when he fought Frankie Daniels. Terrell was only stopped twice ,one by Williams, and once byJeff Merrit in his last fight when he was 35. Simmons went the distance with,Valdes,Norkus,Brionx2 Lastarza x2. All those examples were "half decent fighters".
God it's funny watching chok flutter around in the Liston threads. It must kill him to dish out the odd half compliment in an effort to be taken as somewhat relevant and not just a hater. Backhanded compliments abound LOL, a compliment mixed with a negative etc etc. Then we have Cleveland Williams who is forever linked with Sonny. He's seen as a huge win so chok has to go to extraordinary lengths to denounce him while again trying to straddle that line of not looking like an out and out hater. Even Sonny's son and parents aren't safe. I'm still waiting patiently for someone at some point to mention Sonny's rumored endowment. Sure as **** chok will find a way, somehow, for some damn reason, to downplay things
Foneda Cox, Sonny's sparring partner and good pal said Sonny sent some women to the hospital ,he was that huge.
I don't care what you "think" unless you have concrete evidence. Especially when the discussion is about Sonny Liston! He's the king of back handed compliments on this forum. He'd make a great tennis player.
Liston beat the following ranked contenders before he got his shot. Williams.8 DeJohn.7 Machen .3 Folley.1 Bethea.8 Harris.7 Anyone think he wouldn't have beaten Johansson. Cleroux. Erskine. Cooper. Logan. Miteff. Richardson. Given the opportunity? if he had gotten the chance?
Miteff, I actually like him by the way, he could have been championship material but was badly managed. Miteff got knocked out very early in his career and his chin never really got over that. Dejohn sparked him. In fact Miteff was also bleeder and was beaten inside the distance 8 times all told. Miteff was even knocked flat for the full count by one punch from a young and lighter Muhammad Ali so I am not convinced Williams knocking him out is proof of him doing anything particularly unique or unexpected. There is a famous photo of George Chuvalo brutally knocking miteff through the ropes. you don’t mention that Rischer fought only once in 1960, once in 1959 and took a whole year out to get over a knockout defeat from a past retirement aged Archie Moore! Williams beating Rischer inside the distance was not an unexpected result. His first fight was a KO defeat. Most of the times Rischer was beaten it was inside the schedule. Brian London included.
I've given the names of 7 ranked contenders who did not stop Miteff You've been exposed making grand statements on this thread, two of us have shown you to be wrong. If you can't admit you are wrong ,at least have the grace to shut up on that point !
