Yong-Soo Choi vs. Yamato Mitani - sleeper trilogy of the 90's?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by IntentionalButt, Sep 29, 2019.



  1. Tin_Ribs

    Tin_Ribs Me Full Member

    4,313
    3,474
    Jun 28, 2009
    Flea is a great, great poster and a good guy tbh, he just has a quick temper and doesn't suffer fools gladly, which can lead to the odd ugly encounter. He's put in far more effort and time towards becoming an authority on several fighters, fighting cultures and eras than most of us on here and is a legitimate historian whose work is highly regarded by other historians. He's a very skilled fight interpreter too, one of the best I've come across. Like it or not, the man knows his **** more than most, he just flips out when people confidently come out with stuff he considers ill informed or clouded by bias, which happens a lot. I understand why people get hacked off but there have been a wide assortment of clowns on here over the years who've caused arguments, been appallingly biased/ignorant and had a shite attitude towards others without bringing enough to the table to warrant being tolerated imo. He's a ****ing saint next to some of them.

    If you listen to his podcasts he comes across really well balanced and fair. Being hassled off twatter or slagged off by a knob like Eddie Hearn is hardly a mark of not knowing your stuff.

    The sad thing is that a number of superb posters have been uprooted off this forum over the years. Not hipsters or would-be intellectuals either, as some would have you believe. People whose knowledge of history and the technical side of the art itself matches and outstrips nearly anything I've read in the mainstream for years or heard plenty of supposed trainers espouse.

    Sorry, I've contributed to derailing a good thread here.
     
  2. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,681
    Jul 25, 2015
    He has podcasts? Where can I listen?
     
    PhillyPhan69 likes this.
  3. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,681
    Jul 25, 2015
    Nah, you haven't derailed the thread. Infact, you gave a good perspective that I should've thought about. Flea does make some truly excellent work, like the top 10 Bantam list. I can see how talking to the idiots on here is annoying. But he is very condescending though, like when he says he'll ignore a user for being 'ignorant', and they might just have a lack of knowledge and are still learning.
    Still, he was invaluable for me learning about lower weights. Well, him and you and Confuscious / Fighterinthewind. And of course IB.
     
    Tin_Ribs likes this.
  4. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,681
    Jul 25, 2015
    Yong Soo Choi VS Yamato Mitani III

    Choi (Korean Krusher) Yamato (Blonde Bruiser)

    R1: 9 - 10
    (Yamato looking very sharp)
    R2: 9 - 10
    (Yamato great movement, getting closer though)
    R3: 10 - 9
    (Choi more effective shots)
    R4: 9 - 10
    (Brilliant boxing from Yamato)
    R5: 9 - 10
    (Choi not effective enough)
    R6: 10 - 9
    (Choi sneaky hooks, Yamato less accurate)
    R7: 10 - 9
    (Choi late rally, awesome resilience from Yamato!)
    R8: 9 - 10
    (Yamato sharper, mauling is back!)
    R9: 10 - 9
    (Pure will from both, Choi dominant)
    R10: 9 - 10
    (Brilliant comeback from Yamato)
    R11: 10 - 9
    (VERY close, Choi sneaky bodywork did it for me)
    R12: 10 - 8
    (The round that decided my score. Can't believe Yamato wasn't KO'd)

    Verdict: 114 - 113 Choi!

    Notes:
    • Yamato loses every time he holds his feet with Choi.
    • Pure Guts!
    • How was Mitani not a world champion? He was very skilled. There have been worse world champs.
    • Real give and take fight.
    • This bout was really a battle of two halves
     
    IntentionalButt likes this.
  5. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

    387,724
    69,670
    Nov 30, 2006
    See, that's just it. Expanding your horizons and learning about this sport, with its rich tapestry of history spanning the globe over a myriad of divisions - takes a village. No individual's contributions, however grand they may seem to either themselves or those in their own little insular bubble of shared niche sub-interest, can be counted as so paramount that said person has justification to be a raging foppish ass treating others' viewpoints (especially others who joined the forum around the same time period as you, and remember when you were still a wet-behind-the-ears pubescent just learning the difference between a jab & uppercut) with contempt & disrespect as though you alone have the capacity to parse the sea floor into pearls of wisdom. You can be the world's foremost expert and "legitimate historian" on the bantamweight division in the southeastern quadrant Thailand in late March of 1986 - okay, wonderful, you've planted your little flag in that particularly territory, but that's still a drop in the bucket of the overall pool of knowledge and valuable critique. You're not king of the world. And that is the attitude that some people seem to carry in here, with their heads lodged firmly up their own rears leaving them deaf to anything but the feedback loop they're used to hearing about what precious valued master historians they are for so long from a small echo chamber of sycophants... When, conversely, you have people like Springs Toledo and others, people I'd certainly regard as legitimate historians, yet interact with other members on here in a respectful (if not downright pleasant) manner, as though all of us put on pants a leg at once. :thumbsup:
     
    roughdiamond likes this.
  6. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

    387,724
    69,670
    Nov 30, 2006
    How wasn't Mitani ever champ, indeed ...and how is Choi so under the radar, having actually been a champ (with a seven defense reign) - especially among body punching enthusiasts? Guy was a straight up machine. He puts Wangek to shame for how willing & able he is to walk through clean head shot counters to wallop an opponent's guts. Shame guys like this missed the social media era by a decade or two. I feel like both Choi and Mitani would be "Twitter boxing hipster" darlings. :sisi1
     
  7. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me Full Member

    387,724
    69,670
    Nov 30, 2006
    Waaaaait, now I remember! (my original impetus behind paying Choi & Mitani's rivalry tribute here, that is...)

    Somebody in the General forum posted a link to a database of world title fights since the 1990s run by the "PBO" (the "Premier Boxing Organization"...with an unfortunately tawdry name obviously looking to capitalize on the recognizability of Al Haymon's empire, but after setting aside my reservations and scratching beneath the surface I found they did have some not insubstantive research legwork done ...they are yet another outfit claiming to stand out from the alphabet org crowd by having "unbiased" and "fact-based" rankings...much like the mission of BoxRec and the IBO with their computerized approaches or TBRB with its "near-consensus of a tribal elders' council" :sisi1) and of course whomsoever THEY recognize as "the man" in a given division at whatever moment in time is the one true only champ. :D

    Anyhow, scrolling through '96 at random, from sheer idle curiosity, it struck me that a couple of names at the bottom of the list were familiar, in an instant-recall sort of way. It clicked that I'd scrolled past the same pair further up, and it seemed odd that a 2-fight championship rivalry would have played out within a single year - in close proximity to my period of initiation as diehard appreciator of the lower weights specifically - me not having ever heard of either combatant. So it was off to Google...and of course the videos themselves were unlisted but the article on asianboxing.info popped up, with the videos embedded, and I voraciously sunk my teeth into the first of 24 rounds of bliss, I remember grinning and saying (out loud, to myself, in public :lol:), "Ahhh..bless ya, good ol' A.B."
     
  8. Boxing Prospect

    Boxing Prospect Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    19,209
    5,667
    May 10, 2012
    Someone needs to teach those fools how to monetise, and let them do it 24/7, suspect with some moolah behind them they'd be able to get some really interesting exclusive interviews and stuff
     
  9. PhillyPhan69

    PhillyPhan69 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    17,533
    14,537
    Dec 20, 2006
    Choi vs Mitani III

    Not quite as exciting of difficult to score (IMO) as the 2nd fight but still a high quality battle.

    To me a tale of 2 fights, where I felt Mitani controlled the first 3rd and Choi controlled and dictated the final 2/3 largely.

    I really only felt 4 rounds were questionable in who to score for but even those can give a degree of variables in scoring. And in those rounds did you like the higher volume of punches by Mitani or the harder more telling shots of Choi.

    I never felt like Choi was in trouble, and felt like Choi has Mitani in trouble in 4 different rounds but got very impatient and inaccurate in those cases and in the 10th that cost him a round he could have banked on my card. Had he been more disciplined calculated precise and accurate he may have scored a stoppage IMO?

    Either way great fight

    1 Mitani 10-9
    2 Mitani (Mitani 20-18)
    Mitani gets into a rhythm quickly and during these 2 rounds largely win them by being the more active fighter.

    3 Choi (Mitani 29-28)
    Choi begins to settle in stalking and forcing Mitani to the back foot, and asserts his will. Choi begins the body work that will tell down the stretch.

    4 Mitani (Mitani 39-37)
    Mitani just more accurate and the busier of the 2 here. But Choi lands the cleaner heavier shots but I even with it I felt the more consistent work of Mitani edged it.

    5 Choi (Mitani 48-47)
    Choi began to settle in around this point and I feel like he was in control the rest of the way, and that Mitani while landing quicker and more they were having little impact on Choi. In this round Choi lands solid throughout, and Mitani changes the momentum briefly with a good exchange, but Choi right back on the offensive again working the body good and landing more consistent heavy shots, he did seem to load up on his punches costing him accuracy but his punches were heavy. Mitani closes the round with the best shot knocking Choi backwards but not close enough to take the round.

    6 Choi (57-57)
    7 Choi (Choi (67-66)
    I felt like Choi had his most dominant rounds so far in the fight, and had Mitani in big trouble but his own inaccuracy and overeagerness really hurt him. Those missed wild loaded up punches sap a lot of energy. Mitani finishes both rounds with a flurry but nothing that made me find either round particularly close. Choi looked ready to finish him in 7, but all of those missed punches made me wonder how that would impact him?

    8 Mitani (76-76)
    Choi is either arm weary or conserving energy in my eyes. Mitani much busier but his punches seem to have little on them and Choi seems content to work in some solid body work during this round but the busier Mitani takes it for me.

    9 Choi (86-85)
    Choi back in rhythm controlling the action and imposing his will. Mitani flashes with a flurry over the final 20 but not much on his punches and not enough to take the round away from Choi.

    Mitani (95-95)
    Choi right back in a groove seems like he is walking to another round. Mitani is a warrior as well and fights back driving Choi to the ropes. I felt like this was the hardest round to score. Choi took the early round Mitani late round, and almost scored it even. But Mitani more accurate and consistent round took it by a hair.

    11 Choi (105-104)
    Like rounds 4-5-10 this was another difficult to score round, but again felt like Choi edged this one..not really rooting for one guy and since I have it 2-2 in the rounds I perceived as close I don’t feel like I am favoring one guy or style.

    Round 12
    Choi dominates and drops a weary Mitani. Not sure how Mitani survives the final minute..once again Choi gets wild in trying to finish Mitani. But an exhausted Mitani crumbles to the floor with 15 seconds left. This sealed the fight for Choi although I would have had him 7-5 even without it.

    Choi 115-112
     
  10. Tin_Ribs

    Tin_Ribs Me Full Member

    4,313
    3,474
    Jun 28, 2009
    Have a listen to those for a start mate.
     
    roughdiamond likes this.
  11. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

    9,600
    17,681
    Jul 25, 2015
    Thanks. I'll listen soon.
     
  12. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,101
    41,914
    Mar 3, 2019
    I've got the Mayweather Jr historical context video on and I'm hooked.

    Man said "fistorical context". I'm hooked.
     
  13. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    26,101
    41,914
    Mar 3, 2019
    Hearing this Kyle McLachlan is like listening to James Aycaster talk boxing.
     
  14. Tin_Ribs

    Tin_Ribs Me Full Member

    4,313
    3,474
    Jun 28, 2009
    You make several fair points, but I ain't a sycophant for appreciating someone's work, knowledge and effort, and I get the impression that I'm one of the small echo chamber you're on about. You had a similar spiteful veiled dig at me and a couple of others who are into older lower weight fighters in the Ioka thread - where all this started - ages back for not agreeing with the spurious premise of it and listing other names below bantam who we thought had achieved more. Or that was the distinct impression that I got, along with that the rant you spewed out was because you were pissed off at Flea. I was polite before and took it with fair ease because you were perhaps rightfully hacked off at the way Flea reacted, but it's slightly tedious now. I don't give a bollocks if you think I'm some sort of obsequious toady, I come on here to chat, learn, enjoy myself and hopefully pass on the odd bit of insight here and there. Ah, **** it, I'm done. There's always some **** moaning on here and ragging on the state of the forum being biased, deluded, anti-modern, rose-tinted, toxic etc, way worse than Flea flying off the handle here and there, and the people who do it are every bit as biased, contrarian, arrogant and viewing themselves as ****ing oracles because they trained a few kids or have IBRO membership. No wonder the old crowd all upped sticks and ****ed off. I get little free time as it is; I'll spend it doing something else. Ten years is a good enough stint for me. Tatty bye folks.