Frazier was 29 years old when he fought Foreman, the same age as Ali was when he came back after nearly 4 years of exile that's Frazier's claim to fame FOTC .If he was finished after that fight he had the shortest prime of any heavyweight champion! I don't think he looked much different in the second Quarry fight myself. Frazier beat No 8 Bugner in73, no 4 Quarry in74,and gave Ali life and death in75! Nobody forced Frazier to defend against two unranked second raters, avoiding his deserving contenders for two years, nobody made him go touring with a rock band, or forced him to put on weight and neglect the gym. His choice, and he paid the price for it in Jamaica,and don't tell me he was finished when he put on that fight in Manila four years later !Thats Frazier fan boy horse ****!
A real tough fight for both men? Thanks for the laugh! The Sam Mcvey Jack Johnson Ko’d.was a teenager! Stop Omitting key facts. He was out of gas and stopped just before the final bell if round 20. It was described as a poor fight. Mcvey was also green. Johnson and mcvey were friends so don’t take what he says as the truth. Jack called Ketchel the toughest he fought, didn't he? Ketchel would last two rounds with Frazier! I agree Frazier had weak title defenses but lets keep it real, Stander was much better than say Ross , Ketchel or Flynn.
It was a poor fight simply because Johnson dominated McVey. [url]1904-04-22[/url] 207 [url]Jack Johnson[/url] 190 18 3 6 Mechanic's Pavilion, San Francisco L KO 20/20 referee: [url]Eddie Graney[/url] Johnson defends world 'colored' heavyweight title According to the San Francisco Call this was poor fight with Johnson dominating, fighting in spurts, until knocking out McVey 20 seconds from the final bell. Once again McVey was knocked down in the first round. That's their third fight.Johnson ko'd him, spotting him17lbs. Here is ringside report of the 20th and last round , which by the way you have never read . "McVey's head was hardly cleared,[Johnson had nearly ko'd him in the 19th,]and Johnson went after him again.Throughout the round he landed repeatedly to the head. Near the end of the round,with only 20 seconds left.Johnson landed a right and left that turned McVey completely around,and he fell in a limp mass,face downward on the paddock floor.He lay there breathing heavily until counted out.".San Francisco Call "McVey was carried to his corner" "McVey was so thoroughly out that he was on his way to the dressing room,before he realized he had beem caught napping on the map." Johnson never said Ketchel was his hardest fight ,he always said McVey was .Produce a quote from Johnson saying what you state.We both know you won't don't we!! [url]1903-10-27[/url] [url]Jack Johnson[/url] 15 3 6 Hazard's Pavilion, Los Angeles L PTS 20/20 referee: [url]Charles Eyton[/url] Johnson defends world 'colored' heavyweight title The San Francisco Call reported that McVey - who was floored in rounds 1 and 6 - put up a plucky fight but was 'outgeneraled, outboxed and outclassed.' "Johnson fought cautiously, as he always does." That was their second one . Belo3 is what Box Rec says about McVey's early fights "McVea had fought twice before coming to Oxnard, once in Salinas and once in Australia; he had a reported record of 6-0-2 prior to this fight." This would make his third fight with Johnson his 19th and, according to Box Rec, Johnson's 29th. NB Flynn beat Sam Langford,Jack Dempsey,Al Norton,Carl Morris. Ross beat Flynn, Frank Moran.Sandy Ferguson,Al Palzer,George Gardner,and drew with Joe Jeannette. Both compare very favourably with Ron Stander!
Foreman had uncommon physical strength. Not many Heavyweights could pull that off. Johnson was strong as well but not like Foreman. One thing your not considering is that Frazier was a very precise, accurate inside puncher. Nobody ever stopped his hook. Joe was to able to double and sometimes triple that left...under, over, over, under. Jack has a choice, take it to the ribs or to the jaw. Ali was able to absorb punishment like very few Heavyweights. To the body as well as the head. It is questionable whether Johnson could withstand that kind of power and pressure for 3 minutes a round. Joe was the opposite of the crude Heavyweights Johnson feasted on.
Should we bother asking you what specific applicable fight you attribute these observations to other than your feverish default of saying "history" ? Burns ? Tiny. Ketchel ? Smaller. Jeffries ? A low out put puncher in his prime and not in his rime in Reno. Flynn? Moran ? Willard ? My point is with these older guys we have to go with what we see on film and not just legend. Johnson may have been all that as his most impressive performances came pre-title against his toughest opposition but all we have is the film we have .. he's what we know .. Joe Frazier was a murderous punching stone cold warrior that threw fifty to sixty punches a round for 15 rounds against big, strong fast and talented world class men .. Jack would have to do what everyone had to do at some point in a Frazier fight and that was fight.
Johnson clowns and ties Frazier up early, but Frazier gets his pace mid rounds and stops him mid to late rounds
Tough fight to call. Johnson absolutely feasted on swarmer type fighters coming at him. He loved that. On the other hand, Frazier's workrate and punch output is something Johnson hasn't dealt with, and his more pedestrian pace could see him fall behind on the cards One of Johnson best punch was also a punch that Frazier was susceptible to. Frazier chin is top notch, so if Johnson doesn't get him out of there, can he win a decision?
Prime vs prime Frazier DESTROYS Johnson. By what I've seen on film Johnson, fighting in that hands down around the waist style , poor balance ducking the best fighters available ( whom happened to be black, according to reporters of that era) beating up "Great white hopes". That really had no hope at all. Would absolutely not have a chance against Frazier, like all the fighters of that era. I know a lot of you fall in love with writers from that era blowing up their abilities, but those same writers never saw J.Louis, much less J.Frazier. I'm not a "Modernist" and personally I believe today's fighters are the worse I've seen since 1920's on film . But Johnson falls into that category. If Joe Frazier from 68-70 some how could fight in Johnson's time. He would go undeafeated, and the sports writers of that era would be saying his undeafeated record makes him the GOAT. Some of you would be saying the same thing based on long, long dead sports writers. But we know better? Right. Johnson was the greatest heavyweight of his era, but boxing styles started to change around the 1930's . If you can't see the difference from J Johnson's era, to J Louis era, to J Fraziers perhaps your seeing with blinders on, and passionate on the historical writing of long dead sports writers, opposed to what is so obvious in the reality of film.
For 2 years he avoided top ten challengers and defended against 2 unranked boxers. True ? Or False ? Men ranked during the time you specified that Frazier did not fight. Terrell Folley Spencer Patterson Mildenberger Corletti Liston Martin Lewis Foster Cooper Peralta Urtain Garcia Bodell Bugner
Johnson had poor balance? Johnson signed to defend his title against his 3 leading black challengers, Jeannette in New York twice. Langford in Australia. McVey in Australia. The fights were pulled by, in the case of Jeannette , the NY AC.In the case of Langford and McVey, the promoter Hugh D McIntosh. All public record and confirmed in Adam Pollack's two volume biography of Johnson. I've no argument with the rest of your post ,you may be right,you may be wrong. ps . One modern trainer named three men as the greatest heavyweights ever. They were in no order Joe Louis,Jack Johnson, Muhammad Ali. The trainers name? Eddie Futch. ps Didn't Ali fight with his hands down? NB Johnson went 15 years without being beaten or stopped. When he retired after a career spanning1894-1937 , his face was unmarked. Maybe he was doing something right?
Which opponents did he fight that came close to resembling Joe’s style as well as being able to fight at the same ability level and relentless intensity as the peak Frazier?
