Fighters winning titles and being called ATGs before they even get to 20 fights...

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Oakland Billy Smith, Oct 19, 2019.


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  1. Oakland Billy Smith

    Oakland Billy Smith Active Member banned Full Member

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    The Ukranians and Russians have made a huge impact on boxing in last few years, but the traditional legacy paths that fighters have always followed is changing as a result.

    So many of these guys turn pro at a late age, and are fighting for titles with less than 15 pro fights in many cases....it sounds good on the surface, but can you picture many of these guys sustaining a long term career with all the ups and downs that great fighters typically go through?

    I dont see many of these guys racking up 40 or 50 fight careers, due to them hitting the scene in their late 20s and early 30s...
    also coming back from a loss can be a bit of a process in many cases and takes time.
    Lennox Lewis was written off for a good 3 years after he lost to McCall.
    It took James Toney even longer to rebound from his loss to Roy Jones.

    This guy Gvodzyk that got KOd last night is a great example. He seems like a decent fighter, but I believe he's about 32? Hard to imagine him regrouping after a bad beating like that and fighting his way back into contention at his age. He may very well end up going down as a one hit wonder now.

    It's the very reason I refuse to run out an anoint Usyk an ATG at this stage in his career. He's put together a fine little run at CW and beaten some decent guys, but no way a guy with 16 fights should be put in the kind of conversations he's been put in. We really haven't seen him tested at this point. That's not his fault, but that kind of legitamcy only comes with more fights and more experience.

    What do you people think?
    Is this just the new norm? Is it really no big deal? If Beterbiev gets KOd in a tough fight, or Usyk gets pummeled by a real HW will they be able to jump right back in where they left off ?
     
    Oakland Billy Smith, Oct 19, 2019
    Oakland Billy Smith, Oct 19, 2019
    #1
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  2. greenhornet

    greenhornet Boxing Addict Full Member

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    how many fighters from anywhere get to fifty fights anymore???
     
    greenhornet, Oct 19, 2019
    greenhornet, Oct 19, 2019
    #2
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  3. Odins beard

    Odins beard Fentanyl is one hell of a drug.... Full Member

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    I’d take quality over quantity any day of the week.
     
    Odins beard, Oct 19, 2019
    Odins beard, Oct 19, 2019
    #3
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  4. Nonito Smoak

    Nonito Smoak Ioka>Lomo, sorry my dudes Full Member

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    It doesn't matter if a fighter who is 40-0 fought 30 outside the top 20 to begin their career. That is inferior to the fighter who is 10-0 with more wins over world class and the overall better opponents.
     
    Nonito Smoak, Oct 19, 2019
    Nonito Smoak, Oct 19, 2019
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  5. IsaL

    IsaL VIP Member Full Member

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    In most cases we get neither.
     
    IsaL, Oct 19, 2019
    IsaL, Oct 19, 2019
    #5
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  6. Odins beard

    Odins beard Fentanyl is one hell of a drug.... Full Member

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    What the current crop of EE fighters are doing is very refreshing, no padded records full of Mexican firecracker salesmen, no African blood diamond miners, no Hungarian cab drivers.....

    It’s good to see but you still get guys who are not happy.
     
    Odins beard, Oct 19, 2019
    Odins beard, Oct 19, 2019
    #6
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  7. LondonRingRules

    LondonRingRules Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The actual amount of fights is irrelevant. All that matters is the resume. Say someone has had 15 fights at world level, what difference does it make whether he’s had 15 fights or 50. Those other 35 are irrelevant to whether he’s an ATG and just provide a number on a piece of paper.
     
    LondonRingRules, Oct 20, 2019
    LondonRingRules, Oct 20, 2019
    #7
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  8. roughdiamond

    roughdiamond Ridin' the rails... Full Member

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    Sung Kil Moon
     
    roughdiamond, Oct 20, 2019
    roughdiamond, Oct 20, 2019
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  9. mirkofilipovic

    mirkofilipovic ESB Management Full Member

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    Yeah go watch another sport
     
    mirkofilipovic, Oct 20, 2019
    mirkofilipovic, Oct 20, 2019
    #9
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  10. IntentionalButt

    IntentionalButt Guy wants to name his çock 'macho' that's ok by me

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    Correct.
     
    IntentionalButt, Oct 20, 2019
    IntentionalButt, Oct 20, 2019
    #10
  11. Scorpion

    Scorpion Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'd rather back a fighter who is 18-0 and fought 13 world champions vs a guy a who is 40-0 and fought 10 of them.
     
    Scorpion, Oct 20, 2019
    Scorpion, Oct 20, 2019
    #11
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  12. deyell

    deyell MOLECULE FROM HELL. Full Member

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    You are right, Beterbiev and Usyk should have fought 35 noname journeymen before taking on world level opponents just like your hero Wilder did, that's the path to build a legacy and become a real ATG.
     
    deyell, Oct 20, 2019
    deyell, Oct 20, 2019
    #12
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  13. Eggman

    Eggman "The cream of the crop! Nobody does it better! Full Member

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    Holyfield was unified cruiser champ after about 16 and unified heavy champ after about 22-25 fights

    multiple losses, multi champ.
    Also didn’t cop his first defeat until he was in his 30s
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
    Eggman, Oct 20, 2019
    Eggman, Oct 20, 2019
    #13
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  14. HerolGee

    HerolGee Loyal Member banned Full Member

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    it doesnt matter, ignore it, they arent.

    However a few of them WILL BE!

    For instance, out of bivol kov and grov and Beef, one will become an elite(note that Kov was already there). And one of those elites will become an ATG!

    Its a triangle of achievement, with one man getting to the peak in each generation.

    But ignore handily anyone who claims they all are ATG/elite, they are fools trying to call the whole of boxing history a lie.
     
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2019
    HerolGee, Oct 20, 2019
    HerolGee, Oct 20, 2019
    #14
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  15. Oakland Billy Smith

    Oakland Billy Smith Active Member banned Full Member

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    Like who?
    I'll use Beterbiev as an example, he is 15-0. Outside of Gvodzyk, his best wins are against a shop worn Travois Cloud coming off 2 losses and a one year layoff, and Gabriel Campillo.
    Do you consider this a championship caliber resume?
     
    Oakland Billy Smith, Oct 20, 2019
    Oakland Billy Smith, Oct 20, 2019
    #15
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