Prime Rocky vs Prime Frazier

Marciano never faced anyone close to a 29 year old Muhammad Ali. He had one of the best chins in heavyweight history and maybe the best recuperative powers of all-time. Ali fought alot of big hitters but Joe put him on his back. Not many can say that.

 

Six feet two and two hundred and fourteen pounds.

"In 1964 heavyweight representative Buster Mathis qualified but was injured so Frazier was sent as a replacement. At the [url]Heavyweight boxing event[/url], Frazier knocked out [url]George Oywello[/url] of [url]Uganda[/url] in the first round, then knocked out Athol McQueen of [url]Australia[/url] 40 seconds into the third round. He was then into the semi-final, as the only American boxer left, facing the 6 foot 2, 214 lb. [url]Vadim Yemelyanov[/url] of the Soviet Union."

Frazier fought a German in the final.Hans Huber
"Joe would fight a 30-year-old German mechanic named [url]Hans Huber[/url], who failed to make it on the German Olympic wrestling team."

 

Ok 6-2 214lbs. About Ali's size. Rocky didn't face guys even this big on the elite level other than flabby Joe Louis who was at his fighting best about 10 years and 10 lbs south. My overall point being that judging power can be tricky. Depends on who your hitting. The same punches that knockout Bob Foster or Roland LaStarza might not move George Foreman or put Ali down for a 10 count.
Also the chin. Rocky was tough as hell no dispute. Walking through Ezzard Charles, LaStarza and Moore doesn't necessarily mean he can walk through Ali or Foreman. Maybe he could but it's an assumption at best.

 

I favour Frazier. His left hook is the most dangerous punch in the fight.

 

Rocky never faced a 200LBS + elite fighter quite true! Louis was past it. On chins,I don't think Rocky faced many big punchers .
The two who first come to mind, Walcott and Moore both floored him.Rocky's chin might be a little overated.
Frazier only faced one top drawer banger and we know what happened there. Their chins may be on par?

 

Probably even yes.
I think Quarry was good puncher. Manual Ramos wasn't a great fighter by any means but he was 6-3 226lbs and one thing he could do was punch. According to Frazier he had won 18 fights in a row. (I haven't checked his record) Frazier took his best shots and walked through him. Bonevena had 15 rounds with Joe in Philly in 1968 and couldn't get him in any trouble. Oscar was a pretty strong puncher.
Honestly I just think Foreman was a bit more than just a good slugger. He had uncommon power and his homicidal finishing mentality was something you don't see everyday. It was almost like George didn't feel any return fire when he was in that mode. Joe hit him with a couple of decent hooks that would have made most men at least regroup.

 

Ramos was 208lbs for Frazier, and he never ko'd anyone worth two shillings.

 

Smokin Joe Frazier did fight Oscar Ringo Bonavena, on Sept 20 1966, in New York, Joe was put on the canvas twice by Oscar, who lost a narrow decision to Joe, rematch in 1968, a different story.

 

In their Jan 22 1973 fight in Kingston, Jamaica, George Foreman said that when Joe Frazier struck him in the jaw, in round 1, that that was one of the hardest left hooks that he had ever taken. George admitted that it hurt him, but did not show Joe.

 

Ali was 5 months removed from a 4 year layoff when he fought Frazier the first time. He was exhausted by mid fight. To think this Ali was anywhere near the Ali pre suspension is well beyond ridiculous.

 

Yes when Frazier was in his prime it was a different story. Eddie Futch had been working with Joe full time by then. Be was bobbing and weaving, coming in low much better. The 2nd bout with Oscar wasn't that close. Joe won by a good margin.

 

He was no Carmine Vingo?

 

Not sure who said he was as good.

I could see this excuse being thrown out as much as it is if Joe had fought him in his 1st fight out of exile. Given the circumstances Frazier allowed Ali not 1 but 2 tuneup fights. The last of which went 15 rounds.
Not every Ali excuse is worth regurgitating. If he had won we wouldn't of heard anything about it. Perhaps Frazier should of tied one arm behind his back to give his buddy a better chance.

 

If it was his right I don't think it would've mattered

 

Frazier only had one good punch and lacked sufficient coordination between his left and right.

Not a question of excuses. Fact is Ali was five months removed from a very very long layoff. By mid fight he was exhausted. To think this was Ali anywhere near his best is foolhardy at best.

Their second bout Ali won by a good margin as he was well trained and did not tire as he did in fight 1. He staggered Joe quite visibly in round 2.

Fight three was the best of them all and Joe fought a better technical fight. In the end however Ali stopped Joe to score the only KO victory of the trilogy and win the series 2-1.