Using Oscar and Tyson as comparisons, actually Mayweather too is very casual of you. Hate to say it but you may be right that Ali is overrated but so are the guys you just mentioned.
He's one of the GOATs without a doubt. Certainly the best in his era. And I do think that Norton just had his number every time they fought. But he brought the best out of his opponents
No seriously though there is so much wrong with the OP it's funny. He starts by saying that people who call Ali the GOAT casuals. Remember This. He then says that Ali is called the GOAT coz the media portrayed him as it (they didn't, they were actually quite against it) but then uses Mayweather as his standards for the GOAT, who quite literally did the exact same thing. He says people over hype him for what he did and for his personality/charisma ect. But the one I really disagree with was the political impact one, he didn't really do anything that massive politically. He stood up for himself and accepted his punishment. If Ali was never born the war would've gone exactly the same. The only thing that his time off did for Ali was make him hated and lose 3 years of his prime. His death did not improve his legacy, he was already acclaimed the GOAT (HW at least) well before 2016. In fact by 2015 his image had took a hit due to Pacquiao and Mayweather. Many boxers hit harder than him? Irrelevant. But even if it wasn't many boxers hit harder than Del a Hoya and Mayweather. Only had success due to his size? Del a Hoya below WW... And he didn't, he had success because of his chin, skill, feet, ring IQ AND size. Using his Mayweather logic of how many losses = how good you are, Ali is just ok because lost 5 times. He then compared him to Del a Hoya and Tyson who both have more losses!
Tyson has more losses because he wasn't as good. Del a Hoya is six division champion in era of 17 weights. It'd be more impressive if he done it in an era with 8.
He was great for his ERA. But in H2H matchup against boxers 2 weight classes above him he would be horrible...
Norton had a style that was near impossible to deal with if you couldn't force him back. Outboxing him was hard, but Ali found out he could in the first fight if he danced, but he didn't have the conditioning to dance for the full distance in his prime, let alone in the 70s. Norton was always horrible for a past prime Ali, I expect the Ali of the mid 60s to win quite comfortably though
Ali is without doubt one of the greatest of all time, why people bring up the Norton fights as any barometer to Ali’s greatness as a fighter is beyond me. Ali didn’t fight Norton until his 43rd fight, in 1973, after fighting for 13 years as a professional and nine years after winning his first title, all this after around a hundred amateur fights previous to that. Ali was so far past his prime in wear and tear terms (especially for a reflex fighter) when he met Norton its laughable. Just to give some perspective , fury would have to fight another 13 times to get to that stage, and Joshua another 20, I wonder if they will be losing split decisions to that quality of opponent when they are that far past prime, and have fought that many times, sh—t, even wilder hasn’t got there yet and he’s fought nothing but tomato cans so far. In other words prime Ali would have beat Norton easily.
Yes. Ali would be a journeyman at best. Hughie Fury for example is a much better version of Ali and look where he is at.
You talk of clueless casuals and start a thread about the most famous ever boxer and then unfavourably compare him to three other fighters non-boxing fans will probably have heard of too. Or to sum it up another way: You've shoehorned in the names of four retired boxers you've heard of into one tired, oft-repeated thread. "He has 5 losses. Many boxers hit way harder than him. He only did good because he was tall and had good reach" ... is probably the worst summary of Ali's career/abilities I've read in a while.
You should know Foreman, Frazier and Norton were no longer the same after the fights with Ali. He changed all with his superlative boxing. He was the perfect fighter, he lacked only a little power.
