The thing is Williams was a veteran of 34 fights when Bob Satterfeild knocked him cold. He had already been decked twice by Sly Jones in his 29th bout. Between that fight and Liston Williams fought absolutely nobody with a pulse. A period of five years where he was only active for just over half that time. Just target practice against hand picked victims. Where is this prime period where Williams knocked out elite fighters after losing to Sonny? After williams was destroyed by Liston he fought no other punchers until after the shooting. He drew with Machen and lost to Terrell. The 12 fights he had between being knocked out by Liston and Losing to Terrell one fight was the draw with Machen. One guy was a 13 fight novice. 3 were coming directly off a loss. Of the remaining 8 only Terrell of their first fight had won more than two in a row from their last 6 fights. After this point Williams was famously gunned down by a policeman before he again miraculously returned to the ring. Although his supporters claim it is unfair to judge him after this point wiliams actually fought a better class of men from this point on. I do not believe he was ever good enough to beat anybody he lost to after the shooting since Williams was quite consistent up to that level... which was proven with his wins over Terry Daniels and Ted Gullick right at the end of his career which are as good As any of his actual wins before he took a bullet. The guy who drew with Machen and was knocked out by Satterfeild is not beating the guy who knocked out both Satterfeild and another guy who beat Machen.
Archie beat a lot of young big guys who were prime. His record has a lot of prime opponents on there. Baker Valdez Davidson were all over 200 in prime. There are plenty of other names as well. How many ranked over 190 or ranked in general? Either way it’s more then Williams...by a lot.
Unfortunately Williams is rather more famous for being shot with a 357 magnum than he is for knocking out elite heavyweight contenders.
I notice you haven't tried to defend your claim that he got knocked out every time he faced a name opponent. Just in case there's anyone who hasn't yet grasped this: when Cleveland Williams stepped in as a substitute against Bob Satterfield he was just 20 years old and was given only two days to prepare. The fact that people trying to talk him down keep bringing this up just shows how hard it is to find weak points in his record. And as for not fighting any punchers - Eddie Machen hit hard enough when he was still a novice to knock out Nino Valdes - a feat which eluded Archie Moore in two attempts.
For those saying Williams was faster and hit harder than Valdez why not compare their wins against top ten opposition. Valdez has more wins and more KOs against fighters in the top ten than Williams does. They were roughly the same size and Id like to know how we are measuring speed here because Ive seen more of Williams than likely anyone on this forum and he was no speedster.
stepping into elite level Williams was famously knocked out by both champions he fought. Satterfeild had been a step up from the level he was at. Machen and Terrell were considered his level. Billy Daniels was considered his level. Even Fighting 82 fight Chuvalo in his 90th bout was considered his kind of level. These were not really step ups. So yes Williams was not knocked out by every name guy. But he lost whenever he stepped up. joe Louis was a similar age and had ten less fights when he was beaten by Max Schmeling than Williams had when he lost to Bob Satterfeild. Mike Tyson was a similar age and already world champion after the same number of fights. Same with Floyd Patterson. Ingemar Johansson had retired from boxing before that number. Joe Frazier had already beat Muhammad Ali with 8 fights less than that. 34 fights is enough fights to know what you are doing against a guy 25lb lighter who was knocked cold six months earlier and had lost 2 of his last 6 fights. Machen had another 30 fights between knocking out Valdes and drawing with Williams. Only 8 were inside the distance wins and each of those guys had been stopped before. The other 22 of them went the distance. Losing 4 including being knocked out in one round by Johansson and drawing with Foley. So surviving the punching power of Machen was not that big a deal. Roger Rischer managed it and he could only last one round against Brian London.
Im not sure why its considered such a mismatch that a 6'3" 200 pound 20 year old HW take on Bob Satterfield who was a natural light heavyweight that was 1-2 in his last three fights, 31 years old, and had been stopped 10 times previously (usually early) in addition to losing another six fights. Satterfield wasnt some unbeatable monster, in fact he was very beatable. Wes Bascom was smaller and had a lot less experience than Williams when he beat Satterfield (11 fights to be exact). Rex Layne was smaller than Williams and had the same amound of fights when he knocked out Satterfield. Sam Baroudi was 22 and had moved up to LHW from MW less than a year previous when he knocked out Williams.
Interesting choice of example. Louis was 22, not 20, and in any case what are you trying to say? That Williams was no better than Joe Louis? Correct - Machen was a prime, experienced 29 year old leading contender when he drew with Williams and a novice when he knocked out Valdes. You might want to double-check your figures there.
Ive asked this about a 100 times whenever this bizarre fanboyism around Cleveland Williams rears its ugly head and I never get an answer. Here goes again: Who exactly did Williams knock out to show that hes the monster puncher hes reputed to be? Who exactly did he ever beat to show that he was such a threat? I'll leave that right there and enjoy the sound of crickets chirping for a while.
And whats all this crap about "before he was shot?" Before Williams was shot his record is remarkably devoid of talent for a guy who had as many fights as he had and who fought as long as he did. Its all well and good to say "he only lost to these guys, or got knocked out by those guys before he was shot" as long as you mention that those guys were the ONLY name fighters he was fighting. When the biggest win prior to being shot on your record is a still developing Terrell who was a year away from being a contender it doesnt say a lot about all of the big wins you have.
he did no better against Liston than a number of forgotten knockout victims did against other champions. I see no love of this magnitude for Tami Mauriello for wobbling Joe Louis before he got KTFO. exactly. he never lost to a single guy after he was shot that he wouldn’t have lost to before he was shot. The quality of opposition went up then. He was never beating those kinds of guys before was he?
not at all. What I am saying is look what Louis had achieved with a fewer number of fights, he had already beaten two world champions. He was capable of being stepped up much earlier and at a similar age. 34 fights is plenty if the step up is a 25lb lighter guy on the downturn.
Bob Satterfield stopped Big Cat in 3 rds and Big Cat was unconscious for several minutes - Archie too crafty and too much of a banger- Archie by KO https://www.boxingoverbroadway.com/...eavyweight-the-tragedy-of-cleveland-williams/
