Dundee is often considered one of the best trainers of all time, but how was he, really? Was he a great trainer, or did he just get lucky finding once in a lifetime talents in Ali and Leonard? From what I've read, he was more of a motivator than a trainer.
He was a trainer and he had many good fighters before Ali. That was far from his first foray into the fight game.
I believe he was both, also a very good mentor for future trainers. He trained a handful of good fighters prior to Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard. Actually before he became Ali's trainer, the Louisville Group decided on Archie Moore, but Ali did not care much for the discipline, and left Archie, this after the 1960 Rome Olympics. Angelo trained the likes of Carmen Basilio, Ralph Dupas, Jimmy Ellis, Luis Rodriguez, and Willie Pastrano to name a few. He was also in come backing George Foreman's corner. He really made a fighter work, teaching him techniques, and had a keen eye for looking for weaknesses in his fighter's opponents. He was a master at designing a fight plan for his fighters.
There's a There seems to be a consensus that is what he mainly was, not so much a technical or tactical guy. I probably wouldn't know but I find it hard to believe that looking at the calibre of the fighters he worked with throughout his career that he wouldn't be an extremely capable trainer all round.
Sure he was loaded with knowledge. But not leaving Ali or attempting to stop him from fighting is a big blemish upon him. They knew damn well he was seriously damaged goods and just ignored it for the pay days. As far as great corners go he won a lot of fights for his fighters so can’t knock him there. Morally speaking is another story
He was a better motivator than trainer, but he was arguably the best motivator in boxing history, so that is hardly a negative. As mentioned he had a career pre Ali, and it shows him an excellent trainer. He and manager/promoter brother Chris had a successful gym in Florida. And as clarification to the opening post Ali and Leonard sort Dundee, not the other way around. Thus adding further evidence Dundee was highly respected.
Exactly! And besides Ali or Leonard with other fighters he tended to start going crazy and shout obsceneties between rounds.
Angelo's is a fascinating story. He was the last of the great trainers off the production line at Stillman's. He literally learned his craft at the elbow of Ray Arcel, Whitey Bimstein, Freddie Brown and the Florios, the greatest brains trust in the history of Boxing. Angelo's greatest attribute was to find the means to impart his knowledge in ways that a Fighter could absorb it. He was great at watching. All great trainers do this. The guy shouting and bawling and saying " My way or the highway " is the trainer to avoid like the plague. Have a look back at Montreal and Angelo's clear deference to Arcel and Brown in Duran's corner. They were his father figures and he never sought to hide it. Angelo can hold his head up among the very greatest of his profession.
Like all great trainers, Angelo knew how to extract the reaction he needed from a Fighter. With Willie Pastrano, you had to talk tough, slap him round the face etc... If you didn't he would just ignore you. A guy like Leonard would just switch off if you tried that with him but if you ask him if he sees something then advise him what to do, he will carry it out to the letter.
Angelo was a superb strategist who worked off a fighters strength without implementing too many changes that would have disrupted there natural style. Like mentioned above he learned his craft apprenticing at Stillmans under many great trainers. I believe Bascillio was his first Champ?
If my memory is correct, his first association with a real top fighter was with Basilio, but he did not train him. The association came about because Basilio liked the way Dundee wrapped hands. To put the value of that skill in perspective, FMJ paid a man 100k per year to be available to wrap his hands; the man died a couple years back at 87. Dundee was also a capable cut man, learning, as he did, from the old school guys that did it all.
He said that Ali was always going to fight on and there was nothing people could do to stop him. He reckoned that being the case it might as well be him in the corner who'd been there throughout rather than somebody else.
Idk. I’ll never know what was in the mans heart but decision wise it was an extremely poor one. May have had the purest thoughts on it but was so far off as far being the right move is concerned
He was also especially brilliant at plotting a fighter’s career path to prepare him for the challenges when the time came that he was a champion or fighting for the title. He plotted the path for Leonard and Ali, matching them against various styles and attributes so they had seen it all and been tested by the time they arrived.
