Yes I’ve addressed that some of those guys were dissimilar than Marciano but the point is Ali struggled with ALL kinds of fighters and at ALL stages of his career. I don’t see why one of the greatest heavyweight champions of all time would all of a sudden fall into the “ cake walk “ category for him when so many lesser men didn’t. By the way, Ali was quoted as saying George Chuvalo was the toughest man he ever fought and also that Marciano would be a tough fight for him ( Ali ).
He gets beaten by Ali because 1.Speed 2.Skill. 3.Talent 4.Tendency to cut 5.Size 6.Ali had a great chin
How many rounds did Chuvalo win in two fights with Ali? Chuvalo might be the toughest man anybody fought,that doesn't mean the fights were in any way close. Randy Cobb might be the toughest man Larry Holmes fought! Q Did Ali struggle with anyone of the calibre of Ted Lowry?
Dropped by sparring partner Toxie Hall, a left hook did it. Toxie Hall 13 15 4 7 KOs 4 KOs This content is protected Pro Boxing bouts 32 rounds 208 KOs 21.88%
Well let's just say that it wasn't a massacre like you presume Marciano would be. [/QUOTE]Q Did Ali struggle with anyone of the calibre of Ted Lowry?[/QUOTE] A few actually. The Doug Jones fight was very close by a lot of people's reckoning. And that left hook Cooper decked him with... Oh baby !!
And I'm not denying any o these things.. For the third time now I've said that Ali would beat Marciano.. I just don't think that it HAS to be the easy one sided affair that you seem to feel it would be.. If that's your position then run with it.
1.Yes and I also pointed out that the Remaining two meetings were almost just as difficult. Ali was ready to quit in Manilla, but Frazier's corner beat him to it.. 2. Of course. They were all different, not only from Marciano but from each other as well.. Hence, Ali struggled with all sorts of fighters all stages of his career - some of whom were lesser men than Rocky, yet somehow the guy who went 49-0 and held the highest KO percentage of any linear champion of all time ( until Wilder who isn't linear ) get's sparked with ease.. If that's the way you want it then keep it that way.. I'm not going to change your mind.
But their career arcs were completely different. Marciano only graduated from being a club circuit fighter in 1951 and was done in 1955. His best opponents during that run at what was considered elite at that time were mostly old and rose from the lower weights. Ali was fighting Jones and Cooper in 63, Liston in 64, and outside of his 3 year banishment from the sport, kept fighting top notch guys until 1981. His window was vastly larger and his opponents much more diverse in style and abilities. It's as though one guy was playing Capture the Flag and promptly retired while the other set forth a dynasty. You can not honestly extrapolate the former to scale with the latter.
Who fought longer and took on the better opposition is true but also beside the point. Ali was struggling with lesser opponents as a prospect, a contender, a champion AND a washed up shell of himself.. weather he had 17 pro fights or 60, he had plenty of lackluster performances against guys he wasn't supposed to.. No amount of dancing around the issue or repackaging of the facts is going to change that.
I don't believe Ali would have quit,but I do believe if Frazier had come out for more he would have been stopped. I never suggested Marciano gets sparked ,with or without ease.I believe Ali's physical advantages and clear edge in skills and speed coupled with a great chin ,would result in a tko in about 6rds. Prime Ali struggled with great fighters when a bit past his best,prime Marciano had his hands full with older men past theirs. I'll tell you a secret Marciano's 49-0 doesn't mean much to me at all,half of them were dross. I'd expect quite a few champs to keep a clean sheet against them.,and in some cases improve markedly on his performance.
Those few words sum it up perfectly. When you factor in how much more Ali had to offer over shopworn Walcott & Charles It really is a no brainer.
None of those guys were in Marciano's prime. Ali seems to have been far closer to his best when he lost to Frazier and Norton. He would go on to score some of his best wins afterwards whereas Marciano's struggles/bad performances are before he beat anyone highly ranked.
Also, the argument about Ali struggling with great fighters seems to involve circular logic. Who did Norton beat that makes him great aside from Ali? Take out the win over Ali and his resume doesn't seem that exceptional.
